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From: gl...@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Matt Crowd)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: How to improve Workbench 2.0!
Message-ID: <1991Jan27.105252.7019@marlin.jcu.edu.au>
Date: 27 Jan 91 10:52:52 GMT
Organization: James Cook University
Lines: 123
Ok, after using workbench 2.0 for a while, a friend and I came
up with some ways to make it easier to use. Some would probably
have to wait for 3.0, but others are pretty simple.
BTW, Be warned, this is long, and mainly aimed at making the
system more user friendly.
1) Leaving out icons is too longwinded. You should just be able
to move the icon out and snapshot it.
2) Quiting workbench. Why should you be able to quit workbench
without running any programs? You are left in a totally useless
position!
3) It should be easier to stop the drives clicking. Maybe a
preferences setting. Remember people should not have to use the
CLI for ANYTHING!
4) Clock gripes :
- Xoper says it uses 10% CPU time. Much higher than other clocks around
- Two pixels too large, so it can't be hidden in the window title bar,
which makes scrolling very slow (try running your stuff on a base
2000 with a 4 colour prod screen!)
- Clock should be able to appear in the workbench screen title
bar. If PD hacks and Macs can do it, there is a demand for it.
5) Backdrop feature. Press Amiga-B. Click the gadgets to move
your icons off screen. Press Amiga-B. Hey man, where did all
the icons go? How do I get them back? This will confuse
novice users, even if most people can work out the obvious solution.
6) DisplayBeep() Totally gross. Change it fast. There is already
a PD hack to do what it should do on a fish disk...
7) View by Size -> DOESN'T tell you the SIZE of a file. You can't
find out a file size except using CLI.
8) No keyboard macro for delete. It is used more than some of the
others yet there is no macro for it.
9) Ram Disk icon should always appear. IMHO.
10) Can't create icons from Workbench for files which don't have
them. How many new computer users are going to realize they
can load IconEdit and stuff around. If they are trying to get the
system to automatically "more" a text file and it doesn't have an
icon....
11) Display a different Disk Icon for a Non-Dos Disk. Make it
appear unuseable or something.
12) "The Icon(s) have no default tool" - change this message to
english.
13) Detecting files
It is simple to detect IFF sound/pic files. This should be
done, and if the file doesn't have an icon/default tool, then
Double clicking should display/play the file.
There should be different default icons for different tools/IFF
files.
14) CLI history gripe - personal gripe shared by some other people
who use CLI i know. Under 2.0 con: selecting a command using
the arrows puts the command into the history buffer again. This makes
it more painful to re-execute a series of commands. An option maybe?
or do we just download the replacement on fish?
15) CLI - info should display bytes not blocks. I don't know or
care how large a block is! I try and use the % to work out how
much is used.
16) Setting up IconX is too hard. There should be an easier way
to do it.
17) No kill command for processes. A multitasking system without
kill is incredible. We know this is tied into the incredible lack
of resource tracking.... but.....
18) Lamer assign program. Nobody wants to know about assign. At
least it should be easier to add an assign to the system. Nice
requesters/help options etc.
19) Moving files should change tooltypes. The Mac can handle this.
Otherwise a user can move a file, then wonder why it doesn't work
when they click on it. I have seen people do this. They then proceed
to click 10 times on it....
20) DiskDoctor -> doesn't format for you
21) Format a disk from workbench
- no options (FFS etc.)
- bootable option. How are people supposed to know about install?
Read the rather technical parts of the manual?
22) Can't empty trash unless trash can lid open! Stupid.
BTW, a bug i found with it. Stick a file in it which has protection
bits set so you cannot delete it. The file should have no icon.
Open the trash window and show all files. Empty trash. The
default icon disappears, there is no error message.... but the
file stays there!
23) File Search. There is a very big need for a file search program.
It should be useable from WB as well.
24) No mention of gurus in manual for Amiga 2000
25) No mention of color errors in bootup.
26) The most major gripe is how easy it is to crash the system.
Other systems are getting memory protection. AmigaDOS needs it.
At least provide a way for new programs written today to use
memory protection and leave the old ones unprotected. Eventually,
in about two years, most programs people run will be protected and
the old system can be phased out.
That's about all we could think of. Well, what do you think?
Colin Adams/Matt Crowd
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From: pet...@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: How to improve Workbench 2.0!
Message-ID: <783@cbmger.UUCP>
Date: 28 Jan 91 09:30:01 GMT
References: <1991Jan27.105252.7019@marlin.jcu.edu.au>
Reply-To: pet...@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY)
Organization: Commodore Bueromaschinen GmbH, West Germany
Lines: 56
In article <1991Jan27.105252.7...@marlin.jcu.edu.au> gl...@marlin.jcu.edu.au
(Matt Crowd) writes:
>
>8) No keyboard macro for delete. It is used more than some of the
>others yet there is no macro for it.
This is probably intentional. Deleting the wrong thing is extremely
hazardous. I guess the user shall be protected from making errors by
making this action a bit more complicated.
>10) Can't create icons from Workbench for files which don't have
>them. How many new computer users are going to realize they
>can load IconEdit and stuff around. If they are trying to get the
>system to automatically "more" a text file and it doesn't have an
>icon....
Don't understand that. You CAN invoke IconEdit from the WB. Do you
want it to become a menu item on the WB? If yes, then this is
possible today with utilities like MyMenu (ok, not in normal
shipment).
>14) CLI history gripe - personal gripe shared by some other people
>who use CLI i know. Under 2.0 con: selecting a command using
>the arrows puts the command into the history buffer again.
Not always! Only if you changed something in the line. And as the
system can't simply detect whether your changes were only marginal
or drastic, it can't treat them differently.
>19) Moving files should change tooltypes. The Mac can handle this.
>Otherwise a user can move a file, then wonder why it doesn't work
>when they click on it. I have seen people do this. They then proceed
>to click 10 times on it....
I think this (on the Mac) is due to the "Finder" concept. You can
argue very much about it (good and bad). But I can imagine VERY
difficult situations for the system to guess for new tooltypes
paths. I fear this is impossible to solve in every situation.
>20) DiskDoctor -> doesn't format for you
Hmm, why should it???
>23) File Search. There is a very big need for a file search program.
>It should be useable from WB as well.
Huh? The CLI Search command does this! And you CAN invoke every CLI
program from WB under 2.0.
>25) No mention of color errors in bootup.
Ok, would make some valid lines in the "Trouble shooting" part of
the user manual.
--
Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // E-Mail to \\ Only my personal opinions...
Commodore Frankfurt, Germany \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk
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marlin.jcu.edu.au!glmwc
From: gl...@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Matt Crowd)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: How to improve Workbench 2.0!
Message-ID: <1991Jan30.073017.12620@marlin.jcu.edu.au>
Date: 30 Jan 91 07:30:17 GMT
References: <1991Jan27.105252.7019@marlin.jcu.edu.au> <783@cbmger.UUCP>
Organization: James Cook University of North Queensland
Lines: 72
In article <7...@cbmger.UUCP> pet...@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) writes:
>In article <1991Jan27.105252.7...@marlin.jcu.edu.au> gl...@marlin.jcu.edu.au
(Matt Crowd) writes:
>>
>>8) No keyboard macro for delete. It is used more than some of the
>>others yet there is no macro for it.
>
>This is probably intentional. Deleting the wrong thing is extremely
>hazardous. I guess the user shall be protected from making errors by
>making this action a bit more complicated.
>
There is a requester asking you if you really want to do it, it's good
enough protection.
>>10) Can't create icons from Workbench for files which don't have
>>them. How many new computer users are going to realize they
>>can load IconEdit and stuff around. If they are trying to get the
>>system to automatically "more" a text file and it doesn't have an
>>icon....
>
>Don't understand that. You CAN invoke IconEdit from the WB. Do you
>want it to become a menu item on the WB? If yes, then this is
>possible today with utilities like MyMenu (ok, not in normal
>shipment).
What colin moent to say was that if workbench creates the icon for
you it should create specialized ones for different files ie asm,iff,
smus, etc.
eg. tell workbench to create default icons for a group of text files
and none of them will have `tool type' options !
>>19) Moving files should change tooltypes. The Mac can handle this.
>>Otherwise a user can move a file, then wonder why it doesn't work
>>when they click on it. I have seen people do this. They then proceed
>>to click 10 times on it....
>
>I think this (on the Mac) is due to the "Finder" concept. You can
>argue very much about it (good and bad). But I can imagine VERY
>difficult situations for the system to guess for new tooltypes
>paths. I fear this is impossible to solve in every situation.
>
>>20) DiskDoctor -> doesn't format for you
>
>Hmm, why should it???
>
Just the opther day i had a disk with a few corrupt sectors, i used
diskdoctor on it and the disk sould have been restored to it's original
state, not just locking out the sectors/files that were corrupt and
telling me to copy the files to a new disk.
>>23) File Search. There is a very big need for a file search program.
>>It should be useable from WB as well.
>
>Huh? The CLI Search command does this! And you CAN invoke every CLI
>program from WB under 2.0.
>
Are you referring to which?? This works from the directories with are in
the current path and current dir.
>>25) No mention of color errors in bootup.
>
>Ok, would make some valid lines in the "Trouble shooting" part of
>the user manual.
Include an explanation of the GURU numbers as well, thanks.
>
>--
>Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // E-Mail to \\ Only my personal opinions...
>Commodore Frankfurt, Germany \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk
Matt Crowd.
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From: clel...@sdbio2.ucsd.edu (Thomas Cleland)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: How to improve Workbench 2.0!
Message-ID: <16165@sdcc6.ucsd.edu>
Date: 30 Jan 91 08:22:47 GMT
References: <1991Jan27.105252.7019@marlin.jcu.edu.au> <783@cbmger.UUCP>
Sender: n...@sdcc6.ucsd.edu
Reply-To: clel...@sdbio2.ucsd.edu (Thomas Cleland)
Organization: University of California, San Diego
Lines: 26
Nntp-Posting-Host: sdbio2.ucsd.edu
I do not personally own/use Workbench 2.0, but to the extent
that Colin and Matt's criticisms are still accurate I concur
on the majority of them. Amiga hackers need to learn that
most of the world doesn't enjoy seeking out replacement
console handlers from obscure academic network sites.
Anything CBM can do to Workbench 2.0 to make the absolute
novice able to gain maximum functionality from his/her new
Amiga can only be good. Particularly if the relevant options
can be turned off or removed by the power user and hacker who
may not want them, not need them, or simply prefers some
shareware alternative. I noticed the first reply to Colin and
Matt's posting 'answered' most of their criticisms/suggestions
with hackers' answers. Tell your grandmother that--her eyes
will go glassy and she'll buy a Mac.
For the record, I *do* enjoy seeking replacement console
handlers etc. etc. etc.. My roommate doesn't. We each,
however, would pay the same amount of money for an Amiga, and
be equal in the eyes of customer-conscious software developers.
--
// / Thom Cleland / It is easier /
// / tclel...@ucsd.edu / to get forgiveness /
\X/ / ASOCC * Amiga Users' Group at UCSD / than permission... /
\____________________________________\____________________/
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From: pet...@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: How to improve Workbench 2.0!
Message-ID: <809@cbmger.UUCP>
Date: 30 Jan 91 16:03:07 GMT
References: <1991Jan27.105252.7019@marlin.jcu.edu.au> <783@cbmger.UUCP>
<16165@sdcc6.ucsd.edu>
Reply-To: pet...@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY)
Organization: Commodore Bueromaschinen GmbH, West Germany
Lines: 39
In article <16...@sdcc6.ucsd.edu> clel...@sdbio2.ucsd.edu (Thomas Cleland) writes:
>I do not personally own/use Workbench 2.0, but to the extent
>that Colin and Matt's criticisms are still accurate I concur
>on the majority of them. Amiga hackers need to learn that
>most of the world doesn't enjoy seeking out replacement
>console handlers from obscure academic network sites.
I agree fully with you that it should not be needed for every user
to get a replacement Shell or anything from outside to get to work
with his machine. Commodore tries hard to provide all what is
usefull already in the basic setup.
> I noticed the first reply to Colin and
>Matt's posting 'answered' most of their criticisms/suggestions
>with hackers' answers.
I hope you don't speak of my answer. Because I wanted to point
out that at least the items mentioned by me are already "in there"
or work only slightly different than asked for. I even hate the
attitude of some "hackers" (as you call them) to not even consider
what they have got with the machine because they have prejudices
against original (Commodore) products and instantly grab for
something that has a nice individual or else non-standard smell.
Here at Commodore I mean that I should work with that equipment,
also software-wise, which is basically provided. And I always
found that this is not at all as limited as some of those hackers
always state. Just by looking a little deeper into the provided
manual I often found something new/creative what served me
exceptionally well.
So it is our problem to ask ourselves "Is it not intuitive enough
how it is designed currently?" and "Did we explain that not well
enough in the manuals? Did we explain it but hid it in a nice but
never looked-at place in the manual?". So you can be sure that such
wishes are at least considered in the latter aspect.
--
Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // E-Mail to \\ Only my personal opinions...
Commodore Frankfurt, Germany \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk
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From: pet...@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
Subject: Re: How to improve Workbench 2.0!
Message-ID: <808@cbmger.UUCP>
Date: 30 Jan 91 15:37:20 GMT
References: <1991Jan27.105252.7019@marlin.jcu.edu.au> <783@cbmger.UUCP>
<1991Jan30.073017.12620@marlin.jcu.edu.au>
Reply-To: pet...@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY)
Organization: Commodore Bueromaschinen GmbH, West Germany
Lines: 20
In article <1991Jan30.073017.12...@marlin.jcu.edu.au> gl...@marlin.jcu.edu.au
(Matt Crowd) writes:
>In article <7...@cbmger.UUCP> pet...@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) writes:
>>In article <1991Jan27.105252.7...@marlin.jcu.edu.au> gl...@marlin.jcu.edu.au
(Matt Crowd) writes:
>
>>>23) File Search. There is a very big need for a file search program.
>>>It should be useable from WB as well.
>>
>>Huh? The CLI Search command does this! And you CAN invoke every CLI
>>program from WB under 2.0.
>>
>Are you referring to which?? This works from the directories with are in
>the current path and current dir.
No, I'm referring to the 2.0 version of the CLI program "Search", e.g.
search sys: which file all
^^^^
--
Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // E-Mail to \\ Only my personal opinions...
Commodore Frankfurt, Germany \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk