Path: sparky!uunet!think.com!yale.edu!jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!
netnews.cc.lehigh.edu!ns1.cc.lehigh.edu!ry01
From: r...@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu (ROBERT YUNG)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
Subject: Some questions about OS/2......
Message-ID: <1992Apr15.023800.67016@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu>
Date: 15 Apr 92 02:38:00 GMT
Organization: Lehigh University
Lines: 74
I have some questions before I try it out. Thank you for your time.
1) Does it have a disk cache? I currently use Super-pckwik. Can I use that? If
not, will there be an update?
2) Can I have a CLI box on screen so I can do simple stuff like "copy *.xyz"
without having to click like crazy?
3) Does DOS boxes support ANSI?
4) Is there a screen blanker? Will the one with Super-Pckwik work?
5) How do I unfrag HSFS drives?
6) Can I resize windows without resizing the application? ie: I want to only
see a portion of a program, so I shrink the window until the unwanted areas
are covered up.
7) Do Dos boxes support UMB?
8) If a DOS/WINDOW program crashes, how do I quit it?
9) Can I enlarge an application on screen? Like a magnifying glass. Great for
Ultima Underworld if possible! Just have the playing field on screen.
10) Is there an icon editor?
11) What's the average size of the swap file? Or what's the swap-file size
ratio with memory amount?
12) What's MS's C-2 protection? How's it better?
13) Can I redirect the deleted-file directory to any drive I want? How about a
Ram drive? Is that bad? Also, can I undelete????
14) Mouse support in Dos windows?
15) Can I run different resolution programs in different windows? If yes, then
if I had OS2 in 1024X758, I can run any program as long as their resolution is
equal or less. Right?
16) Multi/Ulti-media support?
17) Dos games work? [TOP PRIORITY :-) ]
18) Street Fighter II applet??? :-) :-) :-)
19) Cool hologram like Dos 5's? BTW, how's the box?
20) Manuals????? REAL ONES I MEAN. Not online ones. I hate reading manuals
from the screen!
21) Any plans for icon name wrapping like in 3.1??? I guess they should since
3.1 compatibility is coming.
22) Will the $50 upgrade from Windows offer end? Is yes, when? And hhow much
would it be then???
23) Can I diskcopy in ONE pass now????
24) Is it too buggy to get know???
25) Is there an easy and quick way to switch between full screen DOS or
Windows? [For those with small screens :-( ]
26) How's IBM's big-fix policy? Free maintainence disks?
THANKS YOU for your time! Your answers will *REALLY* help me! God bless.
--
(%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%)
| Off-campus address... |
| first alley down this street, left refrigerator box. :-) |
| |
\_(Robert) Bobby Yung_______R...@Lehigh.Edu________X-0471_______/
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
Path: sparky!uunet!usc!rpi!uwm.edu!linac!uchinews!ellis!sip1
From: s...@ellis.uchicago.edu (Timothy F. Sipples)
Subject: Re: Some questions about OS/2......
Message-ID: <1992Apr15.045643.4061@midway.uchicago.edu>
Sender: n...@uchinews.uchicago.edu (News System)
Reply-To: s...@midway.uchicago.edu
Organization: Dept. of Econ., Univ. of Chicago
References: <1992Apr15.023800.67016@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu>
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1992 04:56:43 GMT
Lines: 168
In article <1992Apr15.023800.67...@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> r...@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu
(ROBERT YUNG) writes:
>I have some questions before I try it out. Thank you for your time.
>1) Does it have a disk cache? I currently use Super-pckwik. Can I use that? If
>not, will there be an update?
OS/2 2.0 comes with both HPFS and FAT caches that are highly
configurable. You might be able to run Super-pckwik, but it wouldn't
make any sense to do so.
>2) Can I have a CLI box on screen so I can do simple stuff like "copy *.xyz"
>without having to click like crazy?
Yes. OS/2's CMD.EXE, DOS's COMMAND.COM, both, or one of your choosing
(e.g. 4DOS, 4OS2).
>3) Does DOS boxes support ANSI?
Yes. Just add DEVICE=C:\OS2\MDOS\ANSI.SYS /L to your CONFIG.SYS file.
>4) Is there a screen blanker? Will the one with Super-Pckwik work?
It probably will work, but not in the way you expect (i.e. it might
just blank a DOS session). OS/2 2.0 includes a screen blanker as part
of the Lockup facility.
>5) How do I unfrag HSFS drives?
Not needed. HPFS is fragmentation resistant. Meaning that files are
placed strategically when created to prevent most fragmentation. In
practice you are extremely unlikely to get any significant
fragmentation.
If you REALLY want to defragment, the GammaTech Utilities will do it.
>6) Can I resize windows without resizing the application? ie: I want to only
>see a portion of a program, so I shrink the window until the unwanted areas
>are covered up.
I assume you are talking about DOS applications. Yes.
>7) Do Dos boxes support UMB?
Yes.
>8) If a DOS/WINDOW program crashes, how do I quit it?
Return to the Window List (using CTRL-ESC), select the offending
application with the right mouse button, and select Close.
>9) Can I enlarge an application on screen? Like a magnifying glass. Great for
>Ultima Underworld if possible! Just have the playing field on screen.
Not yet. Sounds like a good idea for shareware, doesn't it?
>10) Is there an icon editor?
Comes with OS/2 2.0.
>11) What's the average size of the swap file? Or what's the swap-file size
>ratio with memory amount?
Difficult to answer either question. It depends on how much memory
you allocate to your DOS/Windows sessions, how many applications you
have running at once, and how much RAM you have on your system.
>12) What's MS's C-2 protection? How's it better?
Newsflash: Microsoft just announced the ever-evolving NT won't have
C2.
But, if it did, it would be extremely unlikely to have any impact on
your life. C2 is a certification level (and a low one at that) issued
by the Department of Defense.
>13) Can I redirect the deleted-file directory to any drive I want? How about a
>Ram drive? Is that bad? Also, can I undelete????
Yes, but you certainly wouldn't want to redirect it to a RAM drive.
Bad idea. The whole point in keeping a deleted file directory is to
recover from catastrophy, and a power outage is a very likely
catastrophy. UnDelete is built-in (and is enabled by unREMming a line
in CONFIG.SYS).
>14) Mouse support in Dos windows?
Yes indeed. (However, if someone can let me know how to set the
ballistic control, I'd be most grateful.)
>15) Can I run different resolution programs in different windows? If yes, then
>if I had OS2 in 1024X758, I can run any program as long as their resolution is
>equal or less. Right?
Essentially, although the drivers have to be in place for you to do
this.
>16) Multi/Ulti-media support?
The Windows Multimedia Extensions will run under OS/2 2.0, and the
OS/2 Multimedia Extensions, a backward compatible superset of the
Windows capabilities, will ship in a few weeks.
>17) Dos games work? [TOP PRIORITY :-) ]
With few exceptions.
>18) Street Fighter II applet??? :-) :-) :-)
It isn't mentioned in the README as incompatible.
>19) Cool hologram like Dos 5's? BTW, how's the box?
It is actually a fairly colorful box -- certainly by IBM standards.
But who buys software for the box? (A deep sense of dread sweeps over
me as I realize that this question is more significant than I first
thought. :-))
>20) Manuals????? REAL ONES I MEAN. Not online ones. I hate reading manuals
>from the screen!
Well, you can print them out. They even look good now.
You get about an inch and a half of manuals. If you want more paper,
IBM will gladly sell it to you.
>21) Any plans for icon name wrapping like in 3.1??? I guess they should since
>3.1 compatibility is coming.
In the Win-OS/2 compatibility layer icon name wrapping is not yet a
feature. In OS/2 itself, it is.
>22) Will the $50 upgrade from Windows offer end? Is yes, when? And hhow much
>would it be then???
Ends July 31, 1992. Price could conceivably go all the way up to
$195, but I expect they'll do something to keep the price low. No
guarantees in life, though.
>23) Can I diskcopy in ONE pass now????
Since OS/2 1.3 you have been able to.
>24) Is it too buggy to get know???
Actually, surprisingly, no. Bearing in mind that I've only been using
the release version for a week or so, it is quite stable. The most
severe problem has been an installation glitch (that is easily worked
around). But it is pretty darn good for such a major undertaking.
>25) Is there an easy and quick way to switch between full screen DOS or
>Windows? [For those with small screens :-( ]
Alt-Home for DOS. With Windows programs, the Maximize button. (Just
as you do with Windows.)
>26) How's IBM's big-fix policy? Free maintainence disks?
That's bug fix, right? :-) Yes indeed. Free CSDs (Corrective
Service Diskettes). They should be available online when they come
out. There's also toll free telephone support (60 days from first
call), an OS/2 BBS, us :-), and a money back compatibility guarantee
(if OS/2 2.0 fails to work properly on your machine, and IBM can't fix
it, your money is refunded). Terms may vary outside the U.S.
--
Timothy F. Sipples Keeper of the OS/2 Frequently Asked Questions
s...@ellis.uchicago.edu List, available via anonymous ftp from
Dept. of Economics 128.123.35.151, directory pub/os2/faq, or via
Univ. of Chicago 60637 netmail from LISTS...@BLEKUL11.BITNET.
Path: sparky!uunet!sun-barr!west.West.Sun.COM!cronkite.Central.Sun.COM!texsun!digi!jgay
From: j...@digi.lonestar.org (john gay)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
Subject: ever changing NT (MS running scared...?)
Message-ID: <1992Apr15.190811.17206@digi.lonestar.org>
Date: 15 Apr 92 19:08:11 GMT
References: <1992Apr15.023800.67016@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu>
<1992Apr15.045643.4061@midway.uchicago.edu>
Organization: DSC Communications Corp, Plano, TX
Lines: 35
In article <1992Apr15.045643.4...@midway.uchicago.edu> s...@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>In article <1992Apr15.023800.67...@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu> r...@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu
(ROBERT YUNG) writes:
>>12) What's MS's C-2 protection? How's it better?
>
>Newsflash: Microsoft just announced the ever-evolving NT won't have
>C2.
>
>But, if it did, it would be extremely unlikely to have any impact on
>your life. C2 is a certification level (and a low one at that) issued
>by the Department of Defense.
I hadn't heard that yet, but...
In this weeks (4/13) Info World (that mavin of truth and facts...) the
headline article has a subtitle of "NT to include networking features, OS/2
support". The article says "In addition, Version 1.0 of the Windows NT 32-bit
operating system will also support OS/2's High Performance File System (HPFS).
A second release of NT next year will offer compatibility with OS/2
Presentation Manager, said Steve [I'll eat a floppy] Ballmer, executive
vice president."
Now, why would MS bother including support for an OS that will only sell
[according to Gates or Ballmer I forget which] about 200,000 copies this
year. ;-)
Also, there will be 2 version of NT - a server and a desktop. "NT for
desktops will cost less than $1,000, Walker [Dwayne Walker of NT marketing]
said." So this has gone from an expensive [$400-600] product to a real
expensive [let me guess $995] product. Oooooh, who do I call to give my
credit card number to (NOT!).
john gay. j...@digi.lonestar.org
Crack the Window and see what you are missing.
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
Path: sparky!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!uvaarpa!murdoch!
turing.acs.virginia.edu!prs
From: p...@turing.acs.virginia.edu (Phillip R. Scarr)
Subject: Re: ever changing NT (MS running scared...?)
Message-ID: <1992Apr16.013849.3705@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>
Sender: use...@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU
Organization: The Turing Project, Charlottesville Virginia.
References: <1992Apr15.023800.67016@ns1.cc.lehigh.edu>
<1992Apr15.045643.4061@midway.uchicago.edu> <1992Apr15.190811.17206@digi.lonestar.org>
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1992 01:38:49 GMT
Lines: 9
It's really amazing what kinds of developments you can have on a piece
of software when it doesn't really exist yet! The sky's the limit! I
heard that NT was going to support multiple CMS sessions on an 8088!
Yep, it's true! Bill Gates told me himself! What's that you say? NT is
coming bundled with a 20ppm PostScript laser printer for the unbeatable
price of $99.95? WOW! Bill Gates sure is a hell of a guy...
-Phil
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
Path: sparky!uunet!microsoft!gordonl
From: gord...@microsoft.com (Gordon Letwin)
Subject: Re: ever changing NT (MS running scared...?)
Message-ID: <1992Apr19.181600.18727@microsoft.com>
Date: 19 Apr 92 18:16:00 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.
References: <1992Apr15.045643.4061@midway.uchicago.edu>
<1992Apr15.190811.17206@digi.lonestar.org> <1992Apr16.013849.3705@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>
Lines: 32
In article <1992Apr16.013849.3...@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>
p...@turing.acs.virginia.edu (Phillip R. Scarr) writes:
>
>It's really amazing what kinds of developments you can have on a piece
>of software when it doesn't really exist yet! The sky's the limit! I
>heard that NT was going to support multiple CMS sessions on an 8088!
>Yep, it's true! Bill Gates told me himself! What's that you say? NT is
>coming bundled with a 20ppm PostScript laser printer for the unbeatable
>price of $99.95? WOW! Bill Gates sure is a hell of a guy...
What is the purpose of this posting here? It contains no factual
information, and in fact doesn't even mention OS/2. I guess it *does*
reflect upon OS/2 in the sense that IBM is having troubles delivering
promosed technology, so a posting like this is a loser's attempt to
boost himself by projecting his problems onto others. I just read a book
about professional thieves; they never pass up a chance to tell themselves
how "everybody is crooked", and the thief is actually more admirable because
he's not a hypocrit about it. Your posting reflects similar logic.
We at Microsoft are very pleased to see how much effort is expended in
this group just randomly bashing Microsoft. We like to see that the lack
of OS/2 "victory" stories means that folks must focus on airing their
invented grievances with Microsoft. Further, it's cheering for us to
see the calibur of OS/2s supporters. The windows groups, for example,
don't waste much time inventing wild libelous stories about IBM, they
don't need to since IBM is irrelevant there.
Further, I spoke
with Bill Gates and he says that he's never talked with you about NT.
This group is very harsh on "liars", so you'd better watch your step.
Gordon letwin
not a microsoft spokesperson
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mips!darwin.sura.net!udel!sbcs.sunysb.edu!engws9.ic.sunysb.edu!cdfannin
From: cdfan...@engws9.ic.sunysb.edu (Chris D Fanning)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
Subject: Re: ever changing NT (MS running scared...?)
Message-ID: <1992Apr21.180347.7408@sbcs.sunysb.edu>
Date: 21 Apr 92 18:03:47 GMT
References: <1992Apr15.190811.17206@digi.lonestar.org>
<1992Apr16.013849.3705@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> <1992Apr19.181600.18727@microsoft.com>
Sender: use...@sbcs.sunysb.edu (Usenet poster)
Organization: State University of New York at Stony Brook
Lines: 58
Nntp-Posting-Host: engws9.ic.sunysb.edu
In article <1992Apr19.181600.18...@microsoft.com> gord...@microsoft.com
(Gordon Letwin) writes:
>In article <1992Apr16.013849.3...@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>
p...@turing.acs.virginia.edu (Phillip R. Scarr) writes:
>>
>>It's really amazing what kinds of developments you can have on a piece
>>of software when it doesn't really exist yet! The sky's the limit! I
>>heard that NT was going to support multiple CMS sessions on an 8088!
>>Yep, it's true! Bill Gates told me himself! What's that you say? NT is
>>coming bundled with a 20ppm PostScript laser printer for the unbeatable
>>price of $99.95? WOW! Bill Gates sure is a hell of a guy...
...
>We at Microsoft are very pleased to see how much effort is expended in
>this group just randomly bashing Microsoft. We like to see that the lack
>of OS/2 "victory" stories means that folks must focus on airing their
>invented grievances with Microsoft. Further, it's cheering for us to
>see the calibur of OS/2s supporters. The windows groups, for example,
>don't waste much time inventing wild libelous stories about IBM, they
>don't need to since IBM is irrelevant there.
>
>Further, I spoke
>with Bill Gates and he says that he's never talked with you about NT.
>This group is very harsh on "liars", so you'd better watch your step.
I'd hardly call my grievances with Microsoft "invented". I've been a
Microsoft customer for a long time (since 82). Over the years I've been
increasingly disatsified with their products... the quality of the software
has gone up while every other aspect of their packages has decreased in
quality. This includes packaging, documentation (Microsoft instead wants you
to buy books from Microsoft Press on how to use their product, they don't
feel that you should get worthwhile documentation with the package anymore..),
cost of upgrades (1/2 of retail price?! Comon!), support is poor... <sigh>
And something having nothing to do with the products... Microsoft's
"direction". They've changed their corporate direction as often as a ship
tacks upwind, often leaving customers (like myself) stranded.
If this is invented, ok... fine, I don't want to even argue about that
anymore. You obviously have your opinion.
But, did it ever occur to you that that person's post was sarcastic? I don't
read everything expecting it to be the total truth (do you?) and this does
include your posts as well. Simply adding "Microsoft" after your name does
alot to damage what you say (in my eyes).
I don't know what you've been reading in this newsgroup, but all I can say is
that I've seen more people with problems answered than bickering about
Microsoft. You said that everything coming from IBMers is just hype because
they get a cut. Hardly true.. you don't understand how they get compensated.
Spreading the OS/2 gospel hardly will get them any money, they have to make
SALES DIRECTLY. These IBMers are here on their own time and often only end
up helping other people. This is hardly what I'd call OS/2 hype.
And what's this with NT? You seem to think that NT will bury OS/2... How is
this possible? Are they going to sell it for $50 and that $50 package will
include a 486-50 and 32 megs of RAM? Hardly likely.
Chris
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
Path: sparky!uunet!microsoft!gordonl
From: gord...@microsoft.com (Gordon Letwin)
Subject: Re: ever changing NT (MS running scared...?)
Message-ID: <1992Apr26.210512.2052@microsoft.com>
Date: 26 Apr 92 21:05:12 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corp.
References: <1992Apr16.013849.3705@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>
<1992Apr19.181600.18727@microsoft.com> <1992Apr21.180347.7408@sbcs.sunysb.edu>
Lines: 22
In article <1992Apr21.180347.7...@sbcs.sunysb.edu> cdfan...@engws9.ic.sunysb.edu
(Chris D Fanning) writes:
>You said that everything coming from IBMers is just hype because
>they get a cut.
I said nothing of the kind. Please quote my posting in which I say this.
>You seem to think that NT will bury OS/2...
I haven't said anything that would lead any rational person to believe
that I think this. Please quote these postings as well.
I guess when you can't argue with a person's facts, its easiest to
just *assert* that they said something and then attack that imaginary
statement.
So I don't need to post any more; folks will just use their imaginations
as necessary. (Unfortunately, I can't stop posting, I promosed my friend
Tommy that I'd keep a presense here...)
gordon letwin
not a microsoft spokesperson
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
Path: sparky!uunet!decwrl!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!rcain
From: rc...@netcom.com (Robert Cain)
Subject: Re: ever changing NT (MS running scared...?)
Message-ID: <jd!k86c.rcain@netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 26 Apr 92 23:23:42 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
References: <1992Apr26.210512.2052@microsoft.com>
Lines: 15
gord...@microsoft.com (Gordon Letwin) writes:
:
: So I don't need to post any more; folks will just use their imaginations
: as necessary. (Unfortunately, I can't stop posting, I promosed my friend
: Tommy that I'd keep a presense here...)
:
Gordon, I don't understand your motivation for doing so. I have speculated
elsewhere but.. All you seem to come here for, like Mike, is to antagonize.
What is your purpose? I also notice that you seldom respond to questions.
--
Bob Cain rc...@netcom.com 408-358-2007
"There are some strings. They're just not attached."
Victoria Roberts
Path: sparky!uunet!usc!rpi!gatech!purdue!mentor.cc.purdue.edu!vet.vet.purdue.edu!kelley
From: kel...@vet.vet.purdue.edu (Stephen Kelley)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
Subject: Re: ever changing NT (MS running scared...?)
Message-ID: <47339@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>
Date: 26 Apr 92 23:40:17 GMT
References: <1992Apr19.181600.18727@microsoft.com>
<1992Apr21.180347.7408@sbcs.sunysb.edu> <1992Apr26.210512.2052@microsoft.com>
Sender: n...@mentor.cc.purdue.edu
Organization: Purdue University SVM
Lines: 67
I'm sure I won't be the only one to post this, but here it is
In article <1992Apr26.210512.2...@microsoft.com> gord...@microsoft.com
(Gordon Letwin) writes:
- In article <1992Apr21.180347.7...@sbcs.sunysb.edu>
cdfan...@engws9.ic.sunysb.edu (Chris D Fanning) writes:
-
- >You said that everything coming from IBMers is just hype because
- >they get a cut.
-
- I said nothing of the kind. Please quote my posting in which I say this.
-
+++++++++++++++++++
Article 16087 of comp.os.os2.misc:
Path: mentor.cc.purdue.edu!noose.ecn.purdue.edu!samsung!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!
sdd.hp.com!wupost!uunet!microsoft!gordonl
From: gord...@microsoft.com (Gordon Letwin)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
Subject: Re: Idiots at the Magazines
Message-ID: <1992Apr16.010422.10309@microsoft.com>
Date: 16 Apr 92 01:04:22 GMT
References: <1992Apr3.103823.10869@hemlock.cray.com>
<1992Apr3.181048.13119@tc.cornell.edu> <1992Apr4.212909.16008@cs.mcgill.ca>
Organization: Microsoft Corp.
Lines: 32
[material deleted]
But IBM employees, as of now, are not just participating in OS/2 indirectly,
they will receive direct cash and other material awards in return for
their promoting OS/2. Clearly, IBM employees who continue to post
pro-OS/2 articles are in the same category as those folks who post
advertisements for their Amway stuff, "get straight As in college" and
other such directly commercial ventures.
At the very least these folks need stronger disclaimers spelling out their
direct financial reward for saying pro-OS/2 things; better would be to forbid
their posting for the same reason that other direct commercial advertising
is forbidden.
Gordon letwin
Not a microsoft spokesman, and
not speaking for microsoft
+++++++++++++++++++
I personally don't see any material difference between what Fanning claims
you said and what you actually said; perhaps I'm just dense, or perhaps
the quoted article was a forgery.
Let's recapitulate. Fanning says,
[y]ou said that everything coming from IBMers is just hype
because they get a cut.
You actually say,
But IBM employees, as of now, are not just participating in OS/2
indirectly, they will receive direct cash and other material awards
in return for their promoting OS/2. Clearly, IBM employees who
continue to post pro-OS/2 articles are in the same category as
those folks who post advertisements for their Amway stuff,
"get straight As in college" and other such directly commercial
ventures.
What's the difference?
Steve Kelley
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
Path: sparky!uunet!microsoft!gordonl
From: gord...@microsoft.com (Gordon Letwin)
Subject: Re: ever changing NT (MS running scared...?)
Message-ID: <1992May02.182358.18515@microsoft.com>
Date: 02 May 92 18:23:58 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation
References: <1992Apr26.210512.2052@microsoft.com> <jd!k86c.rcain@netcom.com>
Lines: 67
In article <jd!k86c.rc...@netcom.com> rc...@netcom.com (Robert Cain) writes:
>gord...@microsoft.com (Gordon Letwin) writes:
>
>All you seem to come here for, like Mike, is to antagonize.
>What is your purpose? I also notice that you seldom respond to questions.
I disagree that I seldome respond to questions. I've responded to all
technical questions that I've seen. And I respond to most other civil
questions.
My "purpose" here in postting depends upon the post. When I respond to
technical issues my purpose is to inform. Ditto this posting.
There are an incredible number of abusive and harassing posts on this
group. Most of them are either completely irrational or contain extremly
silly logic. I am continually reminded of the man who sees the mote in
his neighbor's eye while ignoring the beam in his own. So when I respond
to these I'm generally following my engineer's instinct to correct error
when I see it.
I generally use one of two classic approaches: "reductio ad absurdum", and
"whats sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander". In the later case,
you need to turn the tables upon the speaker and gore *his* ox in order
to have an effect.
So, when people are posting very serious accusations against folks they've
never met, saying that editors and writers are taking "payola", and that
they've sold out their professional responsibility in order to make a
few dollars in the stock market, you aren't going to get anywhere by telling
them that it's not nice. And in fact, I didn't see a SINGLE POSTING
saying that these kinds of very abusive and damaging assertions were out
of line.
So I pointed out that if we were going to treat people so harshly because
we arbitrarily assume that they have a hidden financial interest, then
we'll have to treat your "heros" - the IBM guys - even more harshly because
we *know* that they have a financial interest and none of them have
disclosed it.
I received dozens of outraged responses damanding that I apologize to
the IBM guys for saying, "they had an interest in the success of OS/2".
(You'd think that if I suggested that IBM guys DON'T CARE about OS/2
that would result in apology demands, not the other way around!)
So folks are outraged that I said that IBM guys have a financial interest
in promoting OS/2, a documented fact, but not one voice ever said that
folks accusing publishers of payola and personal corruption - in the total
absense of evidence - should issue apoligies.
Here's a test question: just what chance to you think there is of me
issuing an apology for a inoculous and true remark, to this net which
aids and abets some of the worst slanderer's I've ever heard? Blow it out
your barracks bag, kiddies...
Anyway, not a single poster or emailer ever noticed that this was a
"goose/gander" argument, even though I introduced it as such. It's
very depressing. Not only can't johnny read, he can't reason.
I think the problem is the decline in sophistication of the net. N years
ago it was computer programmers, ARPA researchers, etc. Most of them
were reasonably experienced and educated people, and most could follow
simple logic. But now we're flooded with "every day" employees of
companies, college undergrads who show all the characteristics of
being educated via cartoons, etc. Gresham's law: the bad drives out the good.
gordon letwin
not a microsoft spokesperson
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.misc
Path: sparky!uunet!microsoft!gordonl
From: gord...@microsoft.com (Gordon Letwin)
Subject: Re: ever changing NT (MS running scared...?)
Message-ID: <1992May02.182743.18611@microsoft.com>
Date: 02 May 92 18:27:43 GMT
Organization: Microsoft Corporation
References: <1992Apr21.180347.7408@sbcs.sunysb.edu>
<1992Apr26.210512.2052@microsoft.com> <47339@mentor.cc.purdue.edu>
Lines: 36
In article <47...@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> kel...@vet.vet.purdue.edu (Stephen Kelley) writes:
>
>Let's recapitulate. Fanning says,
> [y]ou said that everything coming from IBMers is just hype
> because they get a cut.
>
>
>You actually say,
> But IBM employees, as of now, are not just participating in OS/2
> indirectly, they will receive direct cash and other material awards
> in return for their promoting OS/2. Clearly, IBM employees who
> continue to post pro-OS/2 articles are in the same category as
> those folks who post advertisements for their Amway stuff,
> "get straight As in college" and other such directly commercial
> ventures.
>What's the difference?
The difference is right there in black and white. I said that IBM
employees:
1) receive awards
2) are in the same category as other directly commerical ventures
3) and should be disclaimed as such.
I do not say that "everything ... is just hype". I didn't say "hype",
I didn't say "everything", and I made no representation whatsoever as
to the validty of IBM employee's statements. I simply said that the
employees themselves are "in the same category ... as directly commercial
ventures".
Why isn't this clear to you? It's perfectly obvious...
gordon letwin
not a microsoft spokesperson