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From: 925ward...@gw.wmich.edu
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Is OS/2 Easier?
Message-ID: <1992Nov22.144550.6518@gw.wmich.edu>
Date: 22 Nov 92 14:45:50 EST
Organization: Western Michigan University
Lines: 39
Is the WPS easy to use?
I have read some messages saying it is very difficult to use.
One user even went so far to say "I would place WPS tenth in terms
of ease of use...right behind the dos prompt."
To this end, I would argue with anyone on this topic. To a
new user, the WPS is vastly easier to use than Windows. I should know,
I have installed hundreds of windows machines in the last year and a
half and nearly a hundred OS/2 setups and all of these had one thing
in common: the user was new to computers.
For example, the #1 question I get from people concerning windows:
"I just loaded program x on my hard drive but where is it now? how do I
load it?"
I then have to take them through the process of explaining
that the program manager is just a bunch of pictures representing programs
on the computer. They are not really the programs. Then I have to
show them how to put a new program in the program manager which means
(if they have windows 3.1) loading the file mananger and dragging it
to the program manager or going to file, new item, find it on the hard
drive and then place it.
No one ever asks "where's my program" on os/2. They go to their
drives and just find it on their hard disk. If they want to add it
to their os/2 system folder they just makea shadow of it but they
do not have to do that to find it relatively easy.
I don't think anyone with any real experience with new users
who has used both environments could say that windows is "easier" to use
than the WPS.
-Brad
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Path: sparky!uunet!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!timbol
From: tim...@netcom.com (Mike Timbol)
Subject: Re: Is OS/2 Easier?
Message-ID: <1992Nov23.030427.21635@netcom.com>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
References: <1992Nov22.144550.6518@gw.wmich.edu>
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 03:04:27 GMT
Lines: 53
In article <1992Nov22.144550.6...@gw.wmich.edu> 925ward...@gw.wmich.edu writes:
>
> Is the WPS easy to use?
...
> For example, the #1 question I get from people concerning windows:
>"I just loaded program x on my hard drive but where is it now? how do I
>load it?"
Any windows program with half a brain is going to install itself into
program manager and make it pretty obvious to the user how to load it.
> I then have to take them through the process of explaining
>that the program manager is just a bunch of pictures representing programs
>on the computer. They are not really the programs. Then I have to
>show them how to put a new program in the program manager which means
>(if they have windows 3.1) loading the file mananger and dragging it
>to the program manager or going to file, new item, find it on the hard
>drive and then place it.
>
> No one ever asks "where's my program" on os/2. They go to their
>drives and just find it on their hard disk. If they want to add it
>to their os/2 system folder they just makea shadow of it but they
>do not have to do that to find it relatively easy.
What's the difference between finding the program with the file
manager, or finding the program with the drives icon? (Other than the
fact that the drives icon is slower)
And which is easier -- dragging an item from the file manager to the
program manager, or finding something with the drives icon and creating
a shadow of it on the desktop?
I *do* think the WPS is easy to use, but I think this is NOT a good
example of it. The WPS is nice, and certainly more flexible than the
progman/fileman combination, but there are lots of things it can't do and
lots of things it can do, but they're hard as hell to find out about.
- Mike
P.S. - Anyone know the answer to any of these questions?:
1. How do you take a bunch of icons on the desktop and line them up in
a particular order?
2. How do you change the automatic spacing of icons on the desktop?
3. How do you change the environment variables that an OS/2 program on
the desktop uses without shutting down?
4. How do you take a DOS image and give it access to drive A:?
5. How do you change the time/datestamp of a file under OS/2 (i.e.,
like the "touch" utility does under DOS)?
Thanks in advance for any answers.
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
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cs.ubc.ca!newsserver.sfu.ca!sfu.ca!weinkam
From: wein...@fraser.sfu.ca (James Lawrence Weinkam)
Subject: Re: Is OS/2 Easier?
Message-ID: <weinkam.722549501@sfu.ca>
Sender: n...@sfu.ca
Organization: Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C., Canada
References: <1992Nov22.144550.6518@gw.wmich.edu> <1992Nov23.030427.21635@netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1992 20:11:41 GMT
Lines: 83
tim...@netcom.com (Mike Timbol) writes:
>In article <1992Nov22.144550.6...@gw.wmich.edu> 925ward...@gw.wmich.edu writes:
>> For example, the #1 question I get from people concerning windows:
>>"I just loaded program x on my hard drive but where is it now? how do I
>>load it?"
> Any windows program with half a brain is going to install itself into
>program manager and make it pretty obvious to the user how to load it.
He did not say the program was a windows program, just program x. This
could mean a dos program, and very few of these actually set themselves
up for windows. Also once you do create the icon for it in program
manager, you must also then go to pif editor and create a pif file for
a non-windows program if it requires special memory settings.
>> I then have to take them through the process of explaining
>>that the program manager is just a bunch of pictures representing programs
>>on the computer. They are not really the programs. Then I have to
>>show them how to put a new program in the program manager which means
>>(if they have windows 3.1) loading the file mananger and dragging it
>>to the program manager or going to file, new item, find it on the hard
>>drive and then place it.
>>
>> No one ever asks "where's my program" on os/2. They go to their
>>drives and just find it on their hard disk. If they want to add it
>>to their os/2 system folder they just makea shadow of it but they
>>do not have to do that to find it relatively easy.
> What's the difference between finding the program with the file
>manager, or finding the program with the drives icon? (Other than the
>fact that the drives icon is slower)
The difference is that when the copied the file to the hard drive, they
saw in which folder they had put it. Not to run it, it is only a matter
of opening that folder and starting it. By opening that folder you will
get the nice icons, not some list of file names like the filemanager
provides. For convenience they may wish to create a shadow of it on
the desktop so they do not have to open up the folder containing the
program. I find this much more straight foward than the windows program
manager.
> And which is easier -- dragging an item from the file manager to the
>program manager, or finding something with the drives icon and creating
>a shadow of it on the desktop?
> I *do* think the WPS is easy to use, but I think this is NOT a good
>example of it. The WPS is nice, and certainly more flexible than the
>progman/fileman combination, but there are lots of things it can't do and
>lots of things it can do, but they're hard as hell to find out about.
> - Mike
>P.S. - Anyone know the answer to any of these questions?:
> 1. How do you take a bunch of icons on the desktop and line them up in
> a particular order?
How do you do a similar thing in progman in windows?
> 2. How do you change the automatic spacing of icons on the desktop?
The icons are placed as close together as they can without their names
overlapping, so a program with a very long name will take up more space
than a program with a very short name. A very logical thing to do compared
to program manager where the spacing is fixed, so you either have names
that overlap, or lots of wasted space.
> 3. How do you change the environment variables that an OS/2 program on
> the desktop uses without shutting down?
How do you do this in windows?
> 4. How do you take a DOS image and give it access to drive A:?
Fsaccess !a i think, look in the command ref under fsaccess. Once you
do this though you no longer have access to the image file.
> 5. How do you change the time/datestamp of a file under OS/2 (i.e.,
> like the "touch" utility does under DOS)?
By the Workset /2 developer and it comes with a touch utility.
> Thanks in advance for any answers.
You're welcome.
James
Path: sparky!uunet!olivea!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!timbol
From: tim...@netcom.com (Mike Timbol)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Is OS/2 Easier?
Message-ID: <1992Nov24.021154.29179@netcom.com>
Date: 24 Nov 92 02:11:54 GMT
References: <1992Nov22.144550.6518@gw.wmich.edu>
<1992Nov23.030427.21635@netcom.com> <weinkam.722549501@sfu.ca>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest)
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In article <weinkam.722549...@sfu.ca> wein...@fraser.sfu.ca (James Lawrence Weinkam)
writes:
>tim...@netcom.com (Mike Timbol) writes:
>
>>In article <1992Nov22.144550.6...@gw.wmich.edu> 925ward...@gw.wmich.edu writes:
>
>>> For example, the #1 question I get from people concerning windows:
>>>"I just loaded program x on my hard drive but where is it now? how do I
>>>load it?"
>
>Also once you do create the icon for it in program
>manager, you must also then go to pif editor and create a pif file for
>a non-windows program if it requires special memory settings.
Just as you have to change the settings for a DOS program if it "requires
special memory settings." (Yes, the DOS settings are easier that PIFs,
but still a bit much for users that have trouble finding files.)
>> What's the difference between finding the program with the file
>>manager, or finding the program with the drives icon? (Other than the
>>fact that the drives icon is slower)
>
>The difference is that when the copied the file to the hard drive, they
>saw in which folder they had put it.
And when they install the program under Windows, they know which directory
they put it in (if they were paying attention).
>Not to run it, it is only a matter
>of opening that folder and starting it. By opening that folder you will
>get the nice icons, not some list of file names like the filemanager
>provides.
For a DOS program, the file manager shows a little executable icon (very
small though). The Drives icon shows a larger icon that says "DOS" --
hardly a major improvement.
>For convenience they may wish to create a shadow of it on
>the desktop so they do not have to open up the folder containing the
>program. I find this much more straight foward than the windows program
>manager.
Well, I stand by what I say in the next paragraph. (Shadows are very
nice, by the way, but hardly easier than drag-and-drop).
>> And which is easier -- dragging an item from the file manager to the
>>program manager, or finding something with the drives icon and creating
>>a shadow of it on the desktop?
>>
>> I *do* think the WPS is easy to use, but I think this is NOT a good
>>example of it. The WPS is nice, and certainly more flexible than the
>>progman/fileman combination, but there are lots of things it can't do and
>>lots of things it can do, but they're hard as hell to find out about.
>
>> - Mike
>
>>P.S. - Anyone know the answer to any of these questions?:
Read the above again -- "The WPS is nice, and certainly more flexible than
the progman/fileman combination..." I'm not saying Windows can do
all of these things, just that I wish I could do them under OS/2
>> 1. How do you take a bunch of icons on the desktop and line them up in
>> a particular order?
>How do you do a similar thing in progman in windows?
Obviously, you can't -- you can't put things on the Windows desktop. With
NDW and any number of shells, this is easy. With a program group in Windows,
this is also easy. OS/2 insists on being "helpful" and sorting them
for you.
>> 2. How do you change the automatic spacing of icons on the desktop?
>The icons are placed as close together as they can without their names
>overlapping, so a program with a very long name will take up more space
>than a program with a very short name. A very logical thing to do compared
>to program manager where the spacing is fixed, so you either have names
>that overlap, or lots of wasted space.
Except, of course, that Windows will wrap long program names. In the WPS,
you can manually wrap the names, except that the placement algorithm places
them as if they are all on one line (tremendous waste of space).
> 3. How do you change the environment variables that an OS/2 program on
>> the desktop uses without shutting down?
>How do you do this in windows?
In a DOS prompt, you type, for example, "set path=..."
>> 4. How do you take a DOS image and give it access to drive A:?
>Fsaccess !a i think, look in the command ref under fsaccess. Once you
>do this though you no longer have access to the image file.
OK, any way to have access to the image file *AND* drive A: at the same
time? (Reassigning the image file drive letter, perhaps?)
>> 5. How do you change the time/datestamp of a file under OS/2 (i.e.,
>> like the "touch" utility does under DOS)?
>By the Workset /2 developer and it comes with a touch utility.
I was hoping for something a bit cheaper (like free) :(
>> Thanks in advance for any answers.
>You're welcome.
>
>James
Well, thanks for the info about the touch utility.
- Mike
From: Bertram.Mosh...@f115.n282.z1.tdkt.kksys.com (Bertram Moshier)
Sender: FredG...@tdkt.kksys.com
Path: sparky!uunet!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!uum1!kksys.com!tdkt!FredGate
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Is OS/2 Easier?
Message-ID: <722750260.F00002@tdkt.kksys.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1992 17:04:16 -0600
Lines: 13
You are very correct! To those already using a GUI, the Workplace Shell
is not easy for they must unlearn how to "communicate/instruct" their
computer. For those who never used a GUI or a computer, the Workplace
Shell makes sense.
Why? IBM by design decided to do it. Why? To get more people to use
computers (hopefully IBM computers but since OS/2 runs on OEM, it is
any company's computer).
Bert.
* Origin: (1:282/115)
Path: sparky!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!bcm!lib!oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu!jmaynard
From: jmayn...@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard)
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Is OS/2 Easier?
Message-ID: <7952@lib.tmc.edu>
Date: 27 Nov 1992 23:33:57 GMT
References: <1992Nov23.030427.21635@netcom.com> <weinkam.722549501@sfu.ca>
<1992Nov24.021154.29179@netcom.com>
Sender: use...@lib.tmc.edu
Organization: UT Health Science Center Houston
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Nntp-Posting-Host: oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu
In article <1992Nov24.021154.29...@netcom.com> tim...@netcom.com (Mike Timbol)
writes:
>>> 1. How do you take a bunch of icons on the desktop and line them up in
>>> a particular order?
>OS/2 insists on being "helpful" and sorting them for you.
You must havve the option turned on that makes it do so, then. My desktop, and
a number of my folders, are arranged in the way I want them; in particular, my
desktop has a 640x480 BMP in the center of the 800x600 screen, and the desktop
icons are arranged around the edges of the screen. I got there just by
dragging them where I wanted them with the right mouse button.
>Except, of course, that Windows will wrap long program names. In the WPS,
>you can manually wrap the names, except that the placement algorithm places
>them as if they are all on one line (tremendous waste of space).
Again, this must be due to your option settings. Mine are placed just fine,
and I have some long titles split in the middle (for example, "EPM Technical
Reference").
>OK, any way to have access to the image file *AND* drive A: at the same
>time? (Reassigning the image file drive letter, perhaps?)
I have a specific DOS session for my CD-ROM drive. In its AUTOEXEC.BAT, I use
FSACCESS G:=A: to set the A: drive up in that session as G:.
--
Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can
jmayn...@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu | adequately be explained by stupidity.
"Cat: Four legs and an attitude." -- Jim Reese