Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd
Path: sparky!uunet!wupost!gumby!destroyer!terminator!news
From: pa...@icecreambar.css.itd.umich.edu (Paul Southworth)
Subject: 386bsd -- The New Newsgroup
Message-ID: <1992Sep8.140141.10371@terminator.cc.umich.edu>
Keywords: newsgroup 386bsd news group
Sender: n...@terminator.cc.umich.edu (Usenet Owner)
Reply-To: pa...@umich.edu
Organization: University of Michigan
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 14:01:41 GMT
Lines: 24
I'm getting just about anxious enough about having a 386bsd-only
newsgroup(s) to do something about it. It appears to me, and from some
brief discussions with various other enthusiasts, that coordination is
what is required for this effort, since there are plenty of supporters out
there.
1. Is there currently any person or group of people attempting to
coordinate another go at making a new newsgroup?
2. Do people think it might be appropriate to do a single mass-mailing to
all people who have expressed interest in a new newsgroup when we are
ready to go for a vote (ie, to draw them back to the group if they happen
to be reading infrequently)? I assume that such an effort would greatly
benefit those who tend to show up only when they have problems.
I'm willing to contribute some effort to this. In the interest of not
duplicating anyone's work, I'd like to hear what's already being done on
this front.
Paul Southworth
<not speaking for>
Consulting & Support Services
Information Technology Division
University of Michigan
Path: sparky!uunet!spool.mu.edu!agate!soda.berkeley.edu!wjolitz
From: wjol...@soda.berkeley.edu (William F. Jolitz)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd
Subject: Re: 386bsd -- The New Newsgroup
Date: 8 Sep 1992 18:02:33 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <18iprpINNg6e@agate.berkeley.edu>
References: <1992Sep8.140141.10371@terminator.cc.umich.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu
Keywords: newsgroup 386bsd news group
In article <1992Sep8.140141.10...@terminator.cc.umich.edu> pa...@umich.edu writes:
>I'm getting just about anxious enough about having a 386bsd-only
>newsgroup(s) to do something about it. It appears to me, and from some
>brief discussions with various other enthusiasts, that coordination is
>what is required for this effort, since there are plenty of supporters out
>there....
This is exactly the problem. Unfortunately, I'm snowed under at this time
manually putting together SIG mailing lists groups (we are not at this
time connected to the internet, so processing is quite tedious and not
timely).
I'm eager for volunteers!
As per Bill's suggestion, here's a breakdown of some of the suggested
topics and groups:
comp.os.386bsd (general questions and trivia)
comp.os.386bsd.kernel (discussion on kernel content/structure)
comp.os.386bsd.windows (ditto, on windowing systems like X)
comp.os.386bsd.sharedlib (shared library and programming environment)
comp.os.386bsd.net (networking topics)
comp.os.386bsd.bugs (new bugs)
comp.os.386bsd.ann (announcements, fixes, additions)
I'd love to hear back from people, and help/suggestions are gratefully
appreciated.
Thank you.
Lynne Jolitz.
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd
Path: sparky!uunet!haven.umd.edu!socrates!john
From: j...@socrates.umd.edu (John VanAntwerp)
Subject: Re: 386bsd -- The New Newsgroup
Message-ID: <1992Sep8.200625.2894@socrates.umd.edu>
Keywords: newsgroup 386bsd news group
Organization: University of Maryland University College
References: <1992Sep8.140141.10371@terminator.cc.umich.edu>
<18iprpINNg6e@agate.berkeley.edu>
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 20:06:25 GMT
Lines: 18
In article <18iprpINN...@agate.berkeley.edu> wjol...@soda.berkeley.edu
(William F. Jolitz) writes:
>
>As per Bill's suggestion, here's a breakdown of some of the suggested
>topics and groups:
>
> comp.os.386bsd (general questions and trivia)
> comp.os.386bsd.kernel (discussion on kernel content/structure)
> comp.os.386bsd.windows (ditto, on windowing systems like X)
> comp.os.386bsd.sharedlib (shared library and programming environment)
> comp.os.386bsd.net (networking topics)
> comp.os.386bsd.bugs (new bugs)
> comp.os.386bsd.ann (announcements, fixes, additions)
I think that this is a fine set of newsgroups...
John
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd
Path: sparky!uunet!caen!sdd.hp.com!hp-col!bdale
From: bd...@col.hp.com (Bdale Garbee)
Subject: Re: 386bsd -- The New Newsgroup
Sender: n...@col.hp.com (Usenet News)
Message-ID: <1992Sep8.203503.10969@col.hp.com>
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 20:35:03 GMT
References: <18iprpINNg6e@agate.berkeley.edu>
Organization: HP Colorado Springs Division
Lines: 17
wjol...@soda.berkeley.edu (William F. Jolitz) writes:
> comp.os.386bsd (general questions and trivia)
> comp.os.386bsd.kernel (discussion on kernel content/structure)
> comp.os.386bsd.windows (ditto, on windowing systems like X)
> comp.os.386bsd.sharedlib (shared library and programming environment)
> comp.os.386bsd.net (networking topics)
> comp.os.386bsd.bugs (new bugs)
> comp.os.386bsd.ann (announcements, fixes, additions)
Actually, I'd probably be more interested in seeing a single comp.os.386bsd
than in seeing a set of groups this fragmented. Good threaded user interfaces
make keeping discussions together easy, and it takes less time and effort to
keep up with if it's all in one place...
But I'd be supportive regardless.
Bdale
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd
Path: sparky!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!wupost!csus.edu!netcom.com!netcomsv!
resonex!michael
From: mich...@resonex.com (Michael Bryan)
Subject: Re: 386bsd -- The New Newsgroup
Message-ID: <1992Sep8.154156.2672@resonex.com>
Keywords: newsgroup 386bsd news group
Organization: Resonex Inc., Sunnyvale CA
References: <1992Sep8.140141.10371@terminator.cc.umich.edu>
<18iprpINNg6e@agate.berkeley.edu>
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1992 15:41:56 GMT
Lines: 34
In article <18iprpINN...@agate.berkeley.edu> wjol...@soda.berkeley.edu
(Lynne Jolitz) writes:
>As per Bill's suggestion, here's a breakdown of some of the suggested
>topics and groups:
>
> comp.os.386bsd (general questions and trivia)
> comp.os.386bsd.kernel (discussion on kernel content/structure)
> comp.os.386bsd.windows (ditto, on windowing systems like X)
> comp.os.386bsd.sharedlib (shared library and programming environment)
> comp.os.386bsd.net (networking topics)
> comp.os.386bsd.bugs (new bugs)
> comp.os.386bsd.ann (announcements, fixes, additions)
I hardly think we need such an extensive list of groups at this time.
Just a single group "comp.os.386bsd" should suffice for starters.
After time, a split could be voted on if traffic increases.
If we *really* must create multiple groups, I'd suggest the following
alternate plan:
comp.os.386bsd.announce [Moderated?]
comp.os.386bsd.bugs
comp.os.386bsd.misc
Notice there should be no separate upper-level group if we start
with a split (use .misc instead), and ".ann" should be ".announce"
to be more like other groups.
I really think a single new newsgroup is currently adequate, however.
--
Michael Bryan mich...@resonex.com "Milk and Cheese in '92!" | ,_,
"Lovers are like... dentures. You don't want them in your | /oo \
mouth all night, but you sure as hell want them within arm's | <>__|
reach in the morning!" --- Miss Elmira Gulch | | U|
Path: sparky!uunet!mcsun!Germany.EU.net!unidui!du9ds3!veit
From: v...@du9ds3.uni-duisburg.de (Holger Veit)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd
Subject: Re: 386bsd -- The New Newsgroup
Date: 9 Sep 92 08:11:14 GMT
Organization: Uni-Duisburg FB9 Datenverarbeitung
Lines: 52
Message-ID: <veit.716026274@du9ds3>
References: <1992Sep8.140141.10371@terminator.cc.umich.edu>
<18iprpINNg6e@agate.berkeley.edu> <1992Sep8.200625.2894@socrates.umd.edu>
Reply-To: v...@du9ds3.uni-duisburg.de
NNTP-Posting-Host: du9ds3.uni-duisburg.de
Keywords: newsgroup 386bsd news group
In <1992Sep8.200625.2...@socrates.umd.edu> j...@socrates.umd.edu
(John VanAntwerp) writes:
>In article <18iprpINN...@agate.berkeley.edu> wjol...@soda.berkeley.edu
>(William F. Jolitz) writes:
>>
>>As per Bill's suggestion, here's a breakdown of some of the suggested
>>topics and groups:
>>
>> comp.os.386bsd (general questions and trivia)
>> comp.os.386bsd.kernel (discussion on kernel content/structure)
>> comp.os.386bsd.windows (ditto, on windowing systems like X)
>> comp.os.386bsd.sharedlib (shared library and programming environment)
>> comp.os.386bsd.net (networking topics)
>> comp.os.386bsd.bugs (new bugs)
>> comp.os.386bsd.ann (announcements, fixes, additions)
>I think that this is a fine set of newsgroups...
> John
You should not multiply entities unless it is absolutely necessary
(free translation of William of Occam's well-known statement).
We have considerably high traffic on 'I cannot boot with my configuration', say
'newbie' stuff. Since I follow this group quite long, I would have an idea
where to post such a question, but if I were a beginner and desperate
because of 386bsd had just cleaned my whole disk, I would perhaps ignore
the different groups and send my mail to all of them, perhaps to find
one who can answer.
I haven't seen much on shared libraries yet in this group, so why sharedlib.
Or did I misunderstand this, because you mean a common library (archive) for
all who want to share software? This might be called 'comp.os.386bsd.contrib'.
I if found just a bug in /sys/kern/kern_execve.c, should I post to
comp.os.386bsd.bugs or c.o.3.kernel, just because my detected effects could be
for interest for the latter group as well? And if I fixed the bug on the fly,
should I also send it to c.o.3.ann? Similiar things might happen with
network related things.
BTW, when the AT&T/USL or similiar junk should come up again, where will it
go? I assume from the previous stories (before alt.suit-bsdi ?) was created,
the articles were scattered around everything that had *.unix.* in its name.
*** I am not against a new group comp.os.386bsd, but why should it be a whole
*** tree directly? Confusion will be built-in.
Holger
--
| | / Dr. Holger Veit | INTERNET: v...@du9ds3.uni-duisburg.de
|__| / University of Duisburg | BITNET: veit%du9ds3.uni-duisburg.de@UNIDO
| | / Dept. of Electr. Eng. | "No, my programs are not BUGGY, these are
| |/ Inst. f. Dataprocessing | just unexpected FEATURES"
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd
Path: sparky!uunet!hela.iti.org!wotan.iti.org!scs
From: s...@iti.org (Steve Simmons)
Subject: Re: 386bsd -- The New Newsgroup
Message-ID: <scs.716042844@wotan.iti.org>
Keywords: newsgroup 386bsd news group
Sender: use...@iti.org (Hela USENET News System)
Nntp-Posting-Host: wotan.iti.org
Organization: Industrial Technology Institute
References: <1992Sep8.140141.10371@terminator.cc.umich.edu>
<18iprpINNg6e@agate.berkeley.edu> <1992Sep8.154156.2672@resonex.com>
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 12:47:24 GMT
Lines: 21
mich...@resonex.com (Michael Bryan) writes:
>In article <18iprpINN...@agate.berkeley.edu> wjol...@soda.berkeley.edu
>(Lynne Jolitz) writes:
>>As per Bill's suggestion, here's a breakdown of some of the suggested
>>topics and groups:
>>
>> comp.os.386bsd (general questions and trivia)
. . .
The problem with `386bsd' is that the name is inherently confusing. The
casual reader will not be able to distinguish it from BSDI nor from the
many other x86 commercial Unixes.
In addition, there is already discussion of a 680X0-based version of
this system. This makes the name `386bsd' even more troublesome.
I would strongly suggest forming comp.unix.freebsd. The name more
correctly indicates the purpose, and as appropriate variants emerge
it can develop subgroups rationally.
--
Steve: #1 of human beings on the Zwicky list
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd
Path: sparky!uunet!mcsun!news.funet.fi!funic!nntp.hut.fi!usenet
From: j...@cs.HUT.FI (Jyrki Kuoppala)
Subject: Re: 386bsd -- The New Newsgroup
In-Reply-To: scs@iti.org (Steve Simmons)
Message-ID: <1992Sep9.180831.3944@nntp.hut.fi>
Keywords: newsgroup 386bsd news group
Sender: use...@nntp.hut.fi (Usenet pseudouser id)
Nntp-Posting-Host: laphroaig.cs.hut.fi
Reply-To: j...@cs.HUT.FI (Jyrki Kuoppala)
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
References: <1992Sep8.140141.10371@terminator.cc.umich.edu>
<18iprpINNg6e@agate.berkeley.edu> <1992Sep8.154156.2672@resonex.com>
<scs.716042844@wotan.iti.org>
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1992 18:08:31 GMT
Lines: 5
>I would strongly suggest forming comp.unix.freebsd. The name more
>correctly indicates the purpose, and as appropriate variants emerge
>it can develop subgroups rationally.
comp.os.free.386bsd?
Path: sparky!uunet!stanford.edu!agate!soda.berkeley.edu!wjolitz
From: wjol...@soda.berkeley.edu (William F. Jolitz)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd
Subject: Re: 386bsd -- The New Newsgroup
Date: 9 Sep 1992 19:51:48 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
Lines: 78
Message-ID: <18lkkkINN14d@agate.berkeley.edu>
References: <18iprpINNg6e@agate.berkeley.edu>
<1992Sep8.200625.2894@socrates.umd.edu> <veit.716026274@du9ds3>
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu
Keywords: newsgroup 386bsd news group
In article <veit.716026274@du9ds3> v...@du9ds3.uni-duisburg.de writes:
>In <1992Sep8.200625.2...@socrates.umd.edu> j...@socrates.umd.edu (John VanAntwerp)
writes:
>
>>In article <18iprpINN...@agate.berkeley.edu> wjol...@soda.berkeley.edu
>>(William F. Jolitz) writes:
>>>
>>>As per Bill's suggestion, here's a breakdown of some of the suggested
>>>topics and groups:
>>>
>>> comp.os.386bsd (general questions and trivia)
>>> comp.os.386bsd.kernel (discussion on kernel content/structure)
>>> comp.os.386bsd.windows (ditto, on windowing systems like X)
>>> comp.os.386bsd.sharedlib (shared library and programming environment)
>>> comp.os.386bsd.net (networking topics)
>>> comp.os.386bsd.bugs (new bugs)
>>> comp.os.386bsd.ann (announcements, fixes, additions)
>
>>I think that this is a fine set of newsgroups...
>
>> John
>...
>We have considerably high traffic on 'I cannot boot with my configuration', say
>'newbie' stuff. Since I follow this group quite long, I would have an idea
>where to post such a question, but if I were a beginner and desperate
>because of 386bsd had just cleaned my whole disk, I would perhaps ignore
>the different groups and send my mail to all of them, perhaps to find
>one who can answer.
Oh, you mean like the UNIX trademark and other soliliquies that we're all
wading through? Yes, I suppose some loudmouth could post to everything, but
that's what net etiquette is intended to prevent.
Newbies post to the general comp.os.386bsd of course. Pretty simple.
>I haven't seen much on shared libraries yet in this group, so why sharedlib...
The subgroups kernel, windows, sharedlib (for shared libraries, Holger) and
net (for networking) are actually research/development topics, and have
been of intense interest to those who wish to participate in developing
these areas further.
Please remember, 386BSD is not a commercial system, but intended to facilitate
research and educational inquiry on new work and new paradigms. It is hoped
that all of those people who have written me asking to be part of these
projects will be able to actually aid/formulate newer models of thought.
For example, shared libraries are quite easy to "hack in" (just look at
Linux), and for some systems that is probably the best approach -- just
get it in there and going. However, there are several considerations that
must be dealt with before putting in such a feature. Expedient approaches
can result in a long-time legacy that is difficult to support and even
impedes new progress in related areas.
386BSD is intended to encourage discussion and involvement throughout
the world. It is not an end in itself.
We intend to be quite involved in these topics to help others work towards the
future.
>I if found just a bug in /sys/kern/kern_execve.c, should I post to
>comp.os.386bsd.bugs or c.o.3.kernel, just because my detected effects could be
>for interest for the latter group as well? And if I fixed the bug on the fly,
>should I also send it to c.o.3.ann? Similiar things might happen with
>network related things.
It depends. If you find a bug but not the solution, you post to "bugs".
If you find the fix, you post to "ann". The kernel and networking groups
are intended for basic new work in the kernel and in networking.
Knowing the quality of work you already have accomplished with 386BSD, Holgar,
I am sure that your involvement in at least one of these research topic groups
would be a great asset. In general, I've been most impressed with the talent
and critical eye taken with respect to these topics thus far, and I know that
there is much more to openly consider and discuss.
Once we get these groups rolling, I don't think it will be difficult to
differentiate.
Lynne Jolitz.
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd
Path: sparky!uunet!kithrup!sef
From: s...@kithrup.COM (Sean Eric Fagan)
Subject: Re: 386bsd -- The New Newsgroup
Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd.
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1992 20:37:31 GMT
Message-ID: <1992Sep09.203731.3433@kithrup.COM>
Keywords: newsgroup 386bsd news group
References: <1992Sep8.154156.2672@resonex.com> <scs.716042844@wotan.iti.org>
<1992Sep9.180831.3944@nntp.hut.fi>
Lines: 19
In article <1992Sep9.180831.3...@nntp.hut.fi> j...@cs.HUT.FI (Jyrki Kuoppala) writes:
>>I would strongly suggest forming comp.unix.freebsd. The name more
>>correctly indicates the purpose, and as appropriate variants emerge
>>it can develop subgroups rationally.
>comp.os.free.386bsd?
Horrible name.
In any event, I would suggest waiting about a month or so before any such
discussions; by that time, the judge in the USL v BSDI and State of
California suit should have returned, and made a decision on BSDI's motion
for dismissal. At that point, whether or not a potentially short-lived
group should exist can be discussed more fully.
--
Sean Eric Fagan | "You can't get lost in one room, no matter how
s...@kithrup.COM | little effort you make to learn your way around."
-----------------+ -- William E Davidsen (will...@crd.GE.COM)
Any opinions expressed are my own, and generally unpopular with others.
Path: sparky!uunet!mcsun!Germany.EU.net!unidui!du9ds3!veit
From: v...@du9ds3.uni-duisburg.de (Holger Veit)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd
Subject: Re: 386bsd -- The New Newsgroup
Date: 10 Sep 92 06:52:03 GMT
Organization: Uni-Duisburg FB9 Datenverarbeitung
Lines: 73
Message-ID: <veit.716107923@du9ds3>
References: <18iprpINNg6e@agate.berkeley.edu>
<1992Sep8.200625.2894@socrates.umd.edu> <veit.716026274@du9ds3>
<18lkkkINN14d@agate.berkeley.edu>
Reply-To: v...@du9ds3.uni-duisburg.de
NNTP-Posting-Host: du9ds3.uni-duisburg.de
Keywords: newsgroup 386bsd news group
In <18lkkkINN...@agate.berkeley.edu> wjol...@soda.berkeley.edu (William F. Jolitz)
writes:
>In article <veit.716026274@du9ds3> v...@du9ds3.uni-duisburg.de writes:
>>>>
>>>>As per Bill's suggestion, here's a breakdown of some of the suggested
>>>>topics and groups:
>>>>
>>>> comp.os.386bsd (general questions and trivia)
>>>> comp.os.386bsd.kernel (discussion on kernel content/structure)
>>>> comp.os.386bsd.windows (ditto, on windowing systems like X)
>>>> comp.os.386bsd.sharedlib (shared library and programming environment)
>>>> comp.os.386bsd.net (networking topics)
>>>> comp.os.386bsd.bugs (new bugs)
>>>> comp.os.386bsd.ann (announcements, fixes, additions)
>>We have considerably high traffic on 'I cannot boot with my configuration', say
>>'newbie' stuff.
[...]
>Newbies post to the general comp.os.386bsd of course. Pretty simple.
>>I haven't seen much on shared libraries yet in this group, so why sharedlib...
>The subgroups kernel, windows, sharedlib (for shared libraries, Holger) and
>net (for networking) are actually research/development topics, and have
>been of intense interest to those who wish to participate in developing
>these areas further.
Oh, it's not that I do not understand the intention of these different
groups, my comment (and this was why I mentioned the "newbie") is that not
everyone will directly recognize the main topics. In particular *.ann is
called *.announce in other subtrees, however, the topics do not necessarily
include "fixes, additions" (cf. gnu.announce)
>Please remember, 386BSD is not a commercial system, but intended to facilitate
>research and educational inquiry on new work and new paradigms. It is hoped
>that all of those people who have written me asking to be part of these
>projects will be able to actually aid/formulate newer models of thought.
I have always seen 386BSD as a non-profit, research, and educational system,
and I strongly advocate that it won't go the BSDI way ;-(.
>For example, shared libraries are quite easy to "hack in" (just look at
>Linux), and for some systems that is probably the best approach -- just
>get it in there and going. However, there are several considerations that
>must be dealt with before putting in such a feature. Expedient approaches
>can result in a long-time legacy that is difficult to support and even
>impedes new progress in related areas.
Currently I'm still "hacking" at pccons (will be called "co"nsole driver next),
but my next goal is quite clear: I want to have the disk space back that is
currently used by statically linked X apps (=> shared libs). We should talk
about that in another *thread*. I admit that others might have opinions
on the implementation different than mine, but I don't see - for now! -
that this justifies its own subgroup. I may be wrong, of course, in the
long term, but the group comp.os.386bsd to come may evolve as well as the
OS itself.
>Once we get these groups rolling, I don't think it will be difficult to
>differentiate.
I agree, with a slight modification:
Once we get a main group comp.os.386bsd rolling, I don't think it will be
difficult to differentiate.
>Lynne Jolitz.
Holger
--
| | / Dr. Holger Veit | INTERNET: v...@du9ds3.uni-duisburg.de
|__| / University of Duisburg | BITNET: veit%du9ds3.uni-duisburg.de@UNIDO
| | / Dept. of Electr. Eng. | "No, my programs are not BUGGY, these are
| |/ Inst. f. Dataprocessing | just unexpected FEATURES"
Path: sparky!uunet!sun-barr!ames!agate!soda.berkeley.edu!wjolitz
From: wjol...@soda.berkeley.edu (William F. Jolitz)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd
Subject: Re: 386bsd -- The New Newsgroup
Date: 10 Sep 1992 19:03:33 GMT
Organization: U.C. Berkeley, CS Undergraduate Association
Lines: 15
Message-ID: <18o665INNf9k@agate.berkeley.edu>
References: <scs.716042844@wotan.iti.org> <1992Sep9.180831.3944@nntp.hut.fi>
<1992Sep09.203731.3433@kithrup.COM>
NNTP-Posting-Host: soda.berkeley.edu
Keywords: newsgroup 386bsd news group
In article <1992Sep09.203731.3...@kithrup.COM> s...@kithrup.COM (Sean Eric Fagan)
writes:
>...
>In any event, I would suggest waiting about a month or so before any such
>discussions; by that time, the judge in the USL v BSDI and State of
>California suit should have returned, and made a decision on BSDI's motion
>for dismissal...
386BSD is not involved in this dispute, and work is continuing as usual.
Neither Bill nor I believe that this dispute should have any affect on the
formation of a 386BSD newsgroup nor should it preclude research in the area.
(However, a comp.os.386bsd newsgroup would make certain "AT&T wanna-bes
with BSD" most unhappy, as it's pretty hard to get people to pony-up dollars
when 386BSD is available and it's users active and supportive.)
Lynne Jolitz.