Newsgroups: comp.unix.unixware Path: bga.com!news.sprintlink.net!deathstar.cris.com!news1.oakland.edu! newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net! cs.utexas.edu!uunet!molly!vlcek From: vl...@byteware.com (Jim Vlcek) Subject: Novell de-emphasizing UnixWare Message-ID: <CwKBp6.5B7@byteware.com> Sender: vl...@byteware.com (James Vlcek) Reply-To: vl...@byteware.com (Jim Vlcek) Organization: The Black Box of Lowertown Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 03:15:06 GMT Lines: 45 I'd been away a week in Germany on business, and was suprised to come back and find such a muted response to the 12 September ComputerWorld article detailing Novell's retrenchment. Among other shufflings, Novell is back-burnering "desktop" UnixWare and DOS 7. It's not entirely clear just what the withdrawal of "desktop" UnixWare will mean - does it, for example, spell the end of the Personal Edition, at approximately $150 the best entry-level buy for a PC UNIX? Given the realities of this business, I'd have to imagine that one would only be fooling one's self to think otherwise. UnixWare itself does remain in certain key positions in the Novell strategy, as part of the "Super NOS" that will compete with NT a couple of years down the road. Clearly, Novell is aiming UnixWare at the large-server sector - the last bastion of all UNIX vendors as Microsoft steadily seizes the technical workstation market. (Well, with the exception of SCO, which has clearly maintained its position as _the_ medium-size-Intel-UNIX vendor. A local Novell reseller at a recent trade show told me that the few UnixWare sales he'd made were essentially SCO replacements, which didn't suprise me. But UnixWare has clearly lost this battle.) What sets Novell apart from the other "big UNIX" vendors is that Novell doesn't sell boxes, which are what really make the money for IBM, HP, ATT GIS, and Sun. Sure, some can be convinced to license UnixWare for their boxes, but how much money can be made this way? (Consider: how much money did USL ever make for AT&T? And also consider that Novell has already sold off the UNIX source rights to Sun, and will likely do the same with IBM and HP as well. Further consider how rapidly AT&T GIS is getting into bed with Microsoft and it's NT product...) Novell sold 35,000 UnixWare licenses in 1993 and expects to sell twice that in 1994. (I'm skeptical) This compares to 600,000 NT licenses in that OS's first year, about 300,000 Solaris licenses in 1994, or about 200,000 SCO licenses. I can only shake my head. If Novell had a history - like Microsoft - of sticking by its products until they succeed, I might think UnixWare had a chance. As it is, I suspect that Novell considers UNIX to be an albatross, and will steadily reduce its effort in the UNIX direction. -- Jim Vlcek I came, vl...@byteware.com I saw, The Black Box of Lowertown I posted. Beautiful downtown St. Paul
Path: bga.com!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsserver.jvnc.net! netnews.summit.novell.com!netnews.summit.novell.com!sfgfd!gfd From: g...@summit.novell.com (George F Demarest) Newsgroups: comp.unix.unixware Subject: Re: Novell de-emphasizing UnixWare Date: 26 Sep 1994 19:20:08 GMT Organization: Novell Lines: 92 Message-ID: <3676t8$d6@bird.summit.novell.com> References: <CwKBp6.5B7@byteware.com> Reply-To: g...@summit.novell.com NNTP-Posting-Host: sfgfd.summit.novell.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Jim Vlcek (vl...@byteware.com) wrote: : I'd been away a week in Germany on business, and was suprised to come back : and find such a muted response to the 12 September ComputerWorld article : detailing Novell's retrenchment. Among other shufflings, Novell is : back-burnering "desktop" UnixWare and DOS 7. There goes Jim, starting troube again... :-) : It's not entirely clear just what the withdrawal of "desktop" UnixWare will : mean - does it, for example, spell the end of the Personal Edition, at : approximately $150 the best entry-level buy for a PC UNIX? Given the : realities of this business, I'd have to imagine that one would only be : fooling one's self to think otherwise. No, several articles misinterpreted Frankenburgs statements. The PE will continue to be available, supported, sold, etc. His comment and other comments he has made on this subject specify that UnixWare PE will not receive as much marketing emphasis as our Application Server. The Desktop of UnixWare is now, has been, and will always be an essential part of the product. Ease of administration is one of the elements of UnixWare that makes it friendly for businesses. UW 2.0 will greatly improve ease of use of our desktop and our installation. Someone is sending me a statement of clarification from Mike DeFazio (EVP of Novell's Unix Systems Group) about the PE. But in the meantime: The Personal Edition will remain a product. : (Well, with the exception of SCO, which has clearly maintained its position : as _the_ medium-size-Intel-UNIX vendor. A local Novell reseller at a recent : trade show told me that the few UnixWare sales he'd made were essentially SCO : replacements, which didn't suprise me. But UnixWare has clearly lost this : battle.) I think that you are over-stating here, Jim. The battle rages on. What points you to the conclusion that anyone has won or lost anything? The Unix market in general is growing rapidly, more and more of our resellers are coming on line with UnixWare, and we are about to release a product that will be easier to use and install, will scale extremely well and will be focussed as THE high-performance database/communication/application server on a platform that is accelerating in performance and price/performance at a tremendous rate. : What sets Novell apart from the other "big UNIX" vendors is that Novell : doesn't sell boxes, which are what really make the money for IBM, HP, ATT : GIS, and Sun. Sure, some can be convinced to license UnixWare for their : boxes, but how much money can be made this way? It is exactly because we don't sell hardware that we are in an excellent position. Economies of scale will favor us as extreme competition in a commodity hardware market makes more powerful boxes less expensive. Proprietary hardware companies are already showing the stress. : (Consider: how much money : did USL ever make for AT&T? answer: some. : And also consider that Novell has already sold : off the UNIX source rights to Sun, and will likely do the same with IBM and : HP as well. This is speculation. : Novell sold 35,000 UnixWare licenses in 1993 and expects to sell twice that : in 1994. (I'm skeptical) This compares to 600,000 NT licenses in that OS's : first year, about 300,000 Solaris licenses in 1994, or about 200,000 SCO : licenses. I can only shake my head. If Novell had a history - like : Microsoft - of sticking by its products until they succeed, I might think : UnixWare had a chance. As it is, I suspect that Novell considers UNIX to be : an albatross, and will steadily reduce its effort in the UNIX direction. Novell has an operating system in it's 4th generation with netware. Also a TCP/IP suite for DOS, OS2, Mac. I'm sure you would find a trail of discontinued/never-released products on most decent sized software houses. UW will soon scale better, cost less and outperform most of its peers when UnixWare 2.0 hits the streets. gfd : -- : Jim Vlcek I came, -- +x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x George Demarest | "large systems, whether the government or Novell, Inc. (USG, SED) | private, have an inhumanity to them that's g...@summit.novell.com | fundamentally intolerable" - M. Kapor (908) 522-6363 | Disclaimer: "ok ok, forget I even said it." +x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x
Newsgroups: comp.unix.unixware Path: bga.com!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!molly!vlcek From: vl...@byteware.com (Jim Vlcek) Subject: Re: Novell de-emphasizing UnixWare Message-ID: <CwrvB1.A8H@byteware.com> Sender: vl...@byteware.com (James Vlcek) Reply-To: vl...@byteware.com (Jim Vlcek) Organization: The Black Box of Lowertown References: <3676t8$d6@bird.summit.novell.com> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 05:01:48 GMT Lines: 64 George F Demarest writes > > There goes Jim, starting trouble again... :-) Who, me? :-) But, all fun and games aside... All the postings, and emails I've received, clarifying and fortifying the Novell position with regard to UnixWare do present some kind of positive picture with regard to UnixWare in general, and the PE in particular. But I, and many others like myself, am not afforded the luxury of dealing exclusively in the dry facts of an issue like this. Instead, I must deal with the impressions of my customers, who - if they have heard of UnixWare at all - have the impression that Novell is dumping UnixWare. These are customers who, while they understand the need for a robust system like UNIX for embedded systems such as I produce, are much more comfortable with a Mac or a Windows box than a UNIX workstation. They may have been burned in the past by high-priced, proprietary UNIX workstation vendors, even. Like many others of my stripe, I cheered openly the Novell adoption of the UNIX banner and the acquisition of USL. Finally, I could use a name familiar to my customers - a name which could give them warm fuzzies even if used in the same sentence as UNIX. Instead, I've witnessed 18-odd months of one of the most strikingly incompetent market efforts ever mounted by a billion-dollar corporation. My customers ask me if Novell isn't getting set to dump UNIX, my colleagues _tell_ me that Novell is getting set to dump UNIX, and I've still yet to hear an official and unambiguous statement of strategy from Novell regarding UNIX. The proposition has been set forth that Frankenburg's remarks were exaggerated or misconstrued by the industry press. This is certainly possible. Equally possible in my view, however, is that Frankenburg's main intent was to reassure existing NetWare installations that all is well, and that the wacko technologies are being tossed out of the corporate lifeboat. UNIX may not be out, but it is - as usual - sucking hind tit. > Someone is sending me a statement of clarification from Mike DeFazio > (EVP of Novell's Unix Systems Group) about the PE. But in the meantime: > > The Personal Edition will remain a product. Thank you for that. But tremendous damage has been done. As I've said, I must deal not so much with whatever is the reality of Novell's market stance vis-a-vis UnixWare. I must deal with my customer's impressions of the market. This impression has been clouded by many factors outside Novell's control, by the past misdeeds of the UNIX industry. Novell's actions in the past year and a half, including CEO Frankenburg's recent (mis)statements, have only worsened the situation. It's a long climb out of here. I really hope we can start seeing some positive actions on the part of Novell. -- Jim Vlcek I came, vl...@byteware.com I saw, The Black Box of Lowertown I posted. Beautiful downtown St. Paul
Newsgroups: comp.unix.unixware Path: bga.com!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!swiss.ans.net! potogold.rmii.com!gcs!mark From: m...@gcs.com (Mark Bolzern) Subject: Re: Novell de-emphasizing UnixWare Organization: WorkGroup Solutions (FlagShip) & GCS, Inc. Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 13:53:36 GMT Message-ID: <CxKBxC.Jsq@gcs.com> References: <3676t8$d6@bird.summit.novell.com> <CwrvB1.A8H@byteware.com> Lines: 64 In article <CwrvB1....@byteware.com>, Jim Vlcek <vl...@byteware.com> wrote: >Instead, I've witnessed 18-odd months of one of the most strikingly >incompetent market efforts ever mounted by a billion-dollar corporation. My >customers ask me if Novell isn't getting set to dump UNIX, my colleagues >_tell_ me that Novell is getting set to dump UNIX, and I've still yet to hear >an official and unambiguous statement of strategy from Novell regarding UNIX. > >The proposition has been set forth that Frankenburg's remarks were >exaggerated or misconstrued by the industry press. This is certainly >possible. Equally possible in my view, however, is that Frankenburg's main >intent was to reassure existing NetWare installations that all is well, and >that the wacko technologies are being tossed out of the corporate lifeboat. >UNIX may not be out, but it is - as usual - sucking hind tit. > >> Someone is sending me a statement of clarification from Mike DeFazio >> (EVP of Novell's Unix Systems Group) about the PE. But in the meantime: >> >> The Personal Edition will remain a product. > >Thank you for that. > >But tremendous damage has been done. As I've said, I must deal not so much >with whatever is the reality of Novell's market stance vis-a-vis UnixWare. I >must deal with my customer's impressions of the market. This impression has >been clouded by many factors outside Novell's control, by the past misdeeds >of the UNIX industry. Novell's actions in the past year and a half, >including CEO Frankenburg's recent (mis)statements, have only worsened the >situation. > >It's a long climb out of here. I really hope we can start seeing some >positive actions on the part of Novell. The issue is that Novell does not have the guts to admit that Netware IS NOT and NEVER HAS BEEN and operating system.... So they have to mask why they bought Unix (To have a real OS) until it is sufficiently integrated with Netware... to call it Netware... or until the UnixWare market share is big enough that it doesn't cost them much to admit that Netware is not an OS.. NLMs for a long time were to be the MultiTasking saviour.. they don't have the stomach to admit that they failed.... In the process of course they shoot themselves in the foot... by delaying UnixWare's ability to get market share. It would be cheaper to bite the bullet now and take a lead position..rather than wait for Microsoft to catch up to UnixWare too... MS has already bypassed Netware.... and is beginning to take larger and larger bites out of that installed base... it would be better for Novell to do it with UnixWare... by giving UnixWare Novell Server capabilities yesterday..... Replace one with the other NOW. Otherwise they sentence themselves to obscurity... and maybe Unix with them. Fortunately Linux is making a good showing.... Unix cannot hope to make a frontal attack on the desktop which Microsoft has sown up... It must first serve it better than MS does... and then counter attack later.... The main battle is NT .vs. Unix, not Unix .vs. MS-Win....for now. Netware does not figure at all.. it has already lost. The question now is who replaces Netware Servers... -- Mark Bolzern : m...@gcs.com USA Tel: (303) 699-7470 Fax: (303) 699-2793 WorkGroup Solutions, Inc. The FlagShip "CA-Clipper and XBase on Unix" People FlagShip is a 4GL Database Development System & XBase Porting Tool for Unix No Runtime Fees Info at ftp.wgs.com : /pub2/wgs/Filelist OR mail: i...@wgs.com
Path: bga.com!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!newsserver.jvnc.net! netnews.summit.novell.com!netnews.summit.novell.com!sfgfd!gfd From: g...@summit.novell.com (George F Demarest) Newsgroups: comp.unix.unixware Subject: Re: Novell de-emphasizing UnixWare Date: 14 Oct 1994 15:42:02 GMT Organization: Novell Lines: 60 Message-ID: <37m8sa$c8r@bird.summit.novell.com> References: <3676t8$d6@bird.summit.novell.com> <CwrvB1.A8H@byteware.com> <CxKBxC.Jsq@gcs.com> Reply-To: g...@summit.novell.com NNTP-Posting-Host: sfgfd.summit.novell.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Mark Bolzern (m...@gcs.com) wrote: : The issue is that Novell does not have the guts to admit that Netware IS NOT : and NEVER HAS BEEN and operating system.... So they have to mask why they : bought Unix (To have a real OS) until it is sufficiently integrated with : Netware... to call it Netware... or until the UnixWare market share is big : enough that it doesn't cost them much to admit that Netware is not an OS.. : NLMs for a long time were to be the MultiTasking saviour.. they don't have : the stomach to admit that they failed.... NetWare is selling more than ever. Although it may be an OS that you do not like, it is an OS. It does multi-task and I don't believe we've made claims of saviourhood. Just high-speed network services for multiple clients, protocols, and transports. Being a Unix user, NetWare has not replaced UnixWare as my main operating environment, but I can now take advantage of some of its services and have my colleagues using Macs, Windows and DOS enjoy the benfits that NetWare provides. For each place, the correct tools; that, I believe, is something that Novell does promise. : In the process of course they shoot themselves in the foot... by delaying : UnixWare's ability to get market share. It would be cheaper to bite the : bullet now and take a lead position..rather than wait for Microsoft to : catch up to UnixWare too... MS has already bypassed Netware.... and is : beginning to take larger and larger bites out of that installed base... : it would be better for Novell to do it with UnixWare... by giving UnixWare : Novell Server capabilities yesterday..... Replace one with the other NOW. : Otherwise they sentence themselves to obscurity... and maybe Unix with them. Well, perhaps Microsoft has convinced you of this, but thousands of our customers are not quite convinced. Also, we will be adding NetWare server capabilities to UnixWare in 1995. : The main battle is NT .vs. Unix, not Unix .vs. MS-Win....for now. Well, I'll agree a bit here, but there are other battles. : Netware does not figure at all.. it has already lost. The question now is who : replaces Netware Servers... disagree (and I will defer arguing this point). In the meantime, we are making UnixWare better. Thank you, and good night. gfd : -- : Mark Bolzern : m...@gcs.com USA Tel: (303) 699-7470 Fax: (303) 699-2793 : WorkGroup Solutions, Inc. The FlagShip "CA-Clipper and XBase on Unix" People : FlagShip is a 4GL Database Development System & XBase Porting Tool for Unix : No Runtime Fees Info at ftp.wgs.com : /pub2/wgs/Filelist OR mail: i...@wgs.com -- +x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x George Demarest g...@summit.novell.com UnixWare Prod. Mktg. Mgr. (908) 522-6363 Novell, Inc. +x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x+x