From owner-linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi Fri Oct 9 09:19:05 1992
Status: RO
X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil]
["2323" "Fri" "09" "October" "92" "00:17:52" "-0700" "\"Gregory O. Harp\""
"harp@netcom.com" nil "48" "Amiga Linux Kernel Release 0.00" "^From:" nil nil "10"])
Received: from joker.cs.hut.fi by hutcs.cs.hut.fi with SMTP id AA23024
(5.65c8/HUTCS-S 1.4 for < arl@cs.hut.fi>); Fri, 9 Oct 1992 09:19:02 +0200
Received: by joker.cs.hut.fi (5.65b/6.8/S-TeKoLa)
id AA19232; Fri, 9 Oct 92 09:18:24 +0200
Received: from netcom.netcom.com by joker.cs.hut.fi (5.65b/6.8/S-TeKoLa)
id AA19221; Fri, 9 Oct 92 09:18:18 +0200
Received: by netcom.netcom.com (5.65/SMI-4.1/Netcom)
id AA15047; Fri, 9 Oct 92 00:17:53 -0700
Message-Id: <9210090717.AA15047@netcom.netcom.com>
Sender: owner-linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi
X-Note1: Remember to put 'X-Mn-Key: normal' to your mail body or header
From: "Gregory O. Harp" < harp@netcom.com>
To: linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi
Subject: Amiga Linux Kernel Release 0.00
Date: Fri, 09 Oct 92 00:17:52 -0700
X-Mn-Key: 680X0
Well, I finally got things tied up and functioning [ as far as I can
tell, at least. ;) ].
I've placed it at the private FTP site. The only problem is, of
course, that it's not readable. [ Michael?! ;) ] Once it's readable,
those of you who have access can grab it. As far as I know that's
only three other people right now, although we now have 49 members...
Anyway, the ISR management code is there, along with some general
startup code and a serial driver. You'll need a terminal plugged in
until David finishes the console driver. I'll also be adding a more
standardized printk() function soon, instead of just the puts()-like
stuff that's there...
One thing I've already noticed is the brain damage in
kernel/chr_drv/serial.c. Change the constants 'RBF' and 'TBE' on
lines 57 and 64 to '0x0'. The code works as-is, so don't worry too
much about this change. There will probably another release quite
soon...
I've been going nuts the past few days, but I finally got the time
today to really sit down with it and work the final known bugs out of
it. To give you an idea what has been going on in the last week of my
life:
1) An old customer of mine wants to modify some code I wrote about a
year ago. The problem is that they don't know crap about C (although
their one programmer-wanna-be thinks he does). Anyway, rather than
pay me to make the changes in a few hours, they'd rather pay me for
days worth of phone and in-person support. [ Heheheheh... Even I'm
charging less per hour I've already grossed more than I predicted it
would have cost for me to do it personally. ;) ] Those of you that
have seen my code know that I am an obsessive commenter, and any fool
should be able to figure out what my code is doing...
2) As a result of 1, I've had very little desire to spend the spare
time I've had (which has been very little) staring at my computers.
3) I've been nursing an injured ferret since Saturday, when she found
a new hole I didn't know about and cut herself pretty badly when she
tried to pull her head back out. Why she stuck her head in such a
small hole in the first place evades me. She's fine now, but a little
more cautious about things. The newfound hole is now plugged...
Anyway, I regret making you folks wait so long for this code. It's
only a week late... ;)
--Greg
From owner-linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi Fri Oct 9 17:31:13 1992
Status: RO
X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil]
["918" "Fri" "9" "October" "1992" "11:28:00" "+0000"
"\"Hamish (H.I.) Macdonald\"" "hamish@bnr.ca" nil "26"
"re:Amiga Linux Kernel Release 0.00 " "^From:" nil nil "10"])
Received: from joker.cs.hut.fi by hutcs.cs.hut.fi with SMTP id AA26565
(5.65c8/HUTCS-S 1.4 for < arl@cs.hut.fi>); Fri, 9 Oct 1992 17:31:10 +0200
Received: by joker.cs.hut.fi (5.65b/6.8/S-TeKoLa)
id AA29101; Fri, 9 Oct 92 17:30:38 +0200
Received: from x400gate.bnr.ca by joker.cs.hut.fi (5.65b/6.8/S-TeKoLa)
id AA29087; Fri, 9 Oct 92 17:30:33 +0200
X400-Received: by mta bcars520 in /PRMD=BNR/ADMD=TELECOM.CANADA/C=CA/; Relayed;
Fri, 9 Oct 1992 11:30:10 -0400
X400-Received: by /PRMD=BNR/ADMD=TELECOM.CANADA/C=CA/; Relayed;
Fri, 9 Oct 1992 11:29:28 -0400
X400-Received: by /PRMD=BNR/ADMD=TELECOM.CANADA/C=CA/; Relayed;
Fri, 9 Oct 1992 07:28:00 -0400
X400-Originator: /DD.ID=1619692/G=Hamish/I=HI/S=Macdonald/@bnr.ca
X400-Mts-Identifier:
[/PRMD=BNR/ADMD=TELECOM.CANADA/C=CA/;bcars520.b.536:09.09.92.15.29.28]
Original-Encoded-Information-Types: ia5, undefined
X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2)
Content-Identifier: re:Amiga Linu...
Message-Id: <"5589 Fri Oct 9 11:29:46 1992"@bnr.ca>
Sender: owner-linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi
X-Note1: Remember to put 'X-Mn-Key: normal' to your mail body or header
From: "Hamish (H.I.) Macdonald" < hamish@bnr.ca>
To: linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi
Subject: re:Amiga Linux Kernel Release 0.00
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1992 11:28:00 +0000
X-Mn-Key: 680X0
>>>>> harp@netcom.com wrote:
Greg> Anyway, the ISR management code is there, along with some
Greg> general startup code and a serial driver. You'll need a
Greg> terminal plugged in until David finishes the console driver.
Greg> I'll also be adding a more standardized printk() function soon,
Greg> instead of just the puts()-like stuff that's there...
Has there been any memory management work done yet?
Are there any ideas as to a virtual memory configuration for this
version of Linux yet?
I believe that Linux provides 64M virtual address spaces to (max) 64
tasks, and that the kernel lives in its own virtual address space.
I assume that the approach taken with 680x0 linux would be similar to
other mainstream Unices where the 4G virtual address space is usually
divided in half, with the upper 2G being kernel space, and the lower
2G being the user space.
Any ideas on this yet?
Hamish.
From owner-linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi Tue Oct 13 04:46:19 1992
Status: RO
X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil]
["937" "Mon" "12" "October" "92" "19:45:19" "-0700"
"\"Gregory O. Harp\"" "harp@netcom.com" nil "22"
"Recent silence on this channel..." "^From:" nil nil "10"])
Received: from joker.cs.hut.fi by hutcs.cs.hut.fi with SMTP id AA12401
(5.65c8/HUTCS-S 1.4 for < arl@cs.hut.fi>); Tue, 13 Oct 1992 04:46:16 +0200
Received: by joker.cs.hut.fi (5.65b/6.8/S-TeKoLa)
id AA04375; Tue, 13 Oct 92 04:45:50 +0159
Received: from netcom.netcom.com by joker.cs.hut.fi (5.65b/6.8/S-TeKoLa)
id AA04369; Tue, 13 Oct 92 04:45:46 +0159
Received: by netcom.netcom.com (5.65/SMI-4.1/Netcom)
id AA08631; Mon, 12 Oct 92 19:45:20 -0700
Message-Id: <9210130245.AA08631@netcom.netcom.com>
Sender: owner-linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi
X-Note1: Remember to put 'X-Mn-Key: normal' to your mail body or header
From: "Gregory O. Harp" < harp@netcom.com>
To: linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi
Subject: Recent silence on this channel...
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 92 19:45:19 -0700
X-Mn-Key: 680X0
Well, we're up to 53 members as of Monday night. That's quite a
force, if we can start working together. I have been surprised that
there has been no discussion of the initial kernel release. I know
there's not much to it, but hey... ;)
Now that I have some time again, I'm going to be working on some
standard functions like printk and memory/string manipulation -- sort
of a standard library of sorts.
The basic task swapper is next on my list for development. I'm
certainly open to assistance on it.
Anyway, lets at least get back to discussing the system.
Greg
--
-----------------Greg-Harp----------------harp@netcom.com------------------
"I think I've reached that point / Where every word that you write /
Of every blood dark sea / And every soul black night / And every dream
you dream me in / And every perfect free from sin / And burning eyes /
And hearts on fire / Are just the same old song" -- The Cure
From owner-linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi Wed Oct 14 00:14:41 1992
Status: RO
X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil]
["923" "Tue" "13" "October" "92" "18:09:36" "EDT" "Dave Williams"
"dwilliam@jabba.ess.harris.com " nil "23" "Recent silence on this channel..."
"^From:" nil nil "10"])
Received: from joker.cs.hut.fi by hutcs.cs.hut.fi with SMTP id AA19815
(5.65c8/HUTCS-S 1.4 for < arl@cs.hut.fi>); Wed, 14 Oct 1992 00:14:37 +0200
Received: by joker.cs.hut.fi (5.65b/6.8/S-TeKoLa)
id AA22647; Wed, 14 Oct 92 00:09:42 +0200
Received: from su15a.ess.harris.com by joker.cs.hut.fi (5.65b/6.8/S-TeKoLa)
id AA22639; Wed, 14 Oct 92 00:09:37 +0200
Received: from jabba.ess.harris.com by ess.harris.com (4.1/SMI-4.0)
id AA18205; Tue, 13 Oct 92 18:09:41 EDT
Received: by jabba.ess.harris.com (4.1/SMI-4.1)
id AA02493; Tue, 13 Oct 92 18:09:37 EDT
Message-Id: <9210132209.AA02493@jabba.ess.harris.com>
Sender: owner-linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi
X-Note1: Remember to put 'X-Mn-Key: normal' to your mail body or header
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
From: dwilliam@jabba.ess.harris.com (Dave Williams)
To: linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi
Subject: Recent silence on this channel...
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 18:09:36 EDT
X-Mn-Key: 680X0
> Well, we're up to 53 members as of Monday night. That's quite a
> force, if we can start working together. I have been surprised that
> there has been no discussion of the initial kernel release. I know
> there's not much to it, but hey... ;)
I'm digesting the source right now, Greg. Neat stuff, although
I think your style is going to drive me crazy. I need a pretty-printer
that will do it my way. Anybody got a handy one?
> The basic task swapper is next on my list for development. I'm
> certainly open to assistance on it.
What do you have in mind so far?
BTW - Fishman, did you get my mail with the console stuff? I haven't
heard back from you yet.
Dave Williams | My | Happy!
dwilliam@jabba.ess.harris.com | opinions | Happy!
"Huh? What? Could you repeat the question?" | only. | Joy! Joy!
From owner-linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi Wed Oct 14 00:29:37 1992
Status: RO
X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil]
["375" "Tue" "13" "October" "1992" "18:27:00" "+0000"
"\"Hamish (H.I.) Macdonald\"" "hamish@bnr.ca" nil "11"
"re:Recent silence on this channel... " "^From:" nil nil "10"])
Received: from joker.cs.hut.fi by hutcs.cs.hut.fi with SMTP id AA19866
(5.65c8/HUTCS-S 1.4 for < arl@cs.hut.fi>); Wed, 14 Oct 1992 00:29:34 +0200
Received: by joker.cs.hut.fi (5.65b/6.8/S-TeKoLa)
id AA22914; Wed, 14 Oct 92 00:29:00 +0200
Received: from x400gate.bnr.ca by joker.cs.hut.fi (5.65b/6.8/S-TeKoLa)
id AA22908; Wed, 14 Oct 92 00:28:57 +0159
X400-Received: by mta bcars520 in /PRMD=BNR/ADMD=TELECOM.CANADA/C=CA/; Relayed;
Tue, 13 Oct 1992 18:28:32 -0400
X400-Received: by /PRMD=BNR/ADMD=TELECOM.CANADA/C=CA/; Relayed;
Tue, 13 Oct 1992 18:28:08 -0400
X400-Received: by /PRMD=BNR/ADMD=TELECOM.CANADA/C=CA/; Relayed;
Tue, 13 Oct 1992 14:27:00 -0400
X400-Originator: /DD.ID=1619692/G=Hamish/I=HI/S=Macdonald/@bnr.ca
X400-Mts-Identifier:
[/PRMD=BNR/ADMD=TELECOM.CANADA/C=CA/;bcars520.b.916:13.09.92.22.28.08]
Original-Encoded-Information-Types: ia5, undefined
X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2)
Content-Identifier: re:Recent sil...
Message-Id: <"22932 Tue Oct 13 18:28:18 1992"@bnr.ca>
Sender: owner-linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi
X-Note1: Remember to put 'X-Mn-Key: normal' to your mail body or header
From: "Hamish (H.I.) Macdonald" < hamish@bnr.ca>
To: linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi
Subject: re:Recent silence on this channel...
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1992 18:27:00 +0000
X-Mn-Key: 680X0
>>>>> Dave Williams wrote:
Dave> BTW - Fishman, did you get my mail with the console stuff? I
Dave> haven't heard back from you yet.
Speaking of console stuff, to see how to do an interlaced console
screen using just the copper and no vertical blanking interrupts,
check out the console device (kd.c) in the latest version of the
KludgeMach distribution.
From owner-linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi Wed Oct 14 04:32:32 1992
Status: RO
X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil]
["1510" "Tue" "13" "October" "92" "19:31:06" "-0700"
"\"Gregory O. Harp\"" "harp@netcom.com" nil "32"
"Re: Recent silence on this channel... " "^From:" nil nil "10"])
Received: from joker.cs.hut.fi by hutcs.cs.hut.fi with SMTP id AA20497
(5.65c8/HUTCS-S 1.4 for < arl@cs.hut.fi>); Wed, 14 Oct 1992 04:32:29 +0200
Received: by joker.cs.hut.fi (5.65b/6.8/S-TeKoLa)
id AA26784; Wed, 14 Oct 92 04:31:37 +0200
Received: from netcom.netcom.com by joker.cs.hut.fi (5.65b/6.8/S-TeKoLa)
id AA26777; Wed, 14 Oct 92 04:31:34 +0200
Received: by netcom.netcom.com (5.65/SMI-4.1/Netcom)
id AA03712; Tue, 13 Oct 92 19:31:07 -0700
Message-Id: <9210140231.AA03712@netcom.netcom.com>
Sender: owner-linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi
X-Note1: Remember to put 'X-Mn-Key: normal' to your mail body or header
From: "Gregory O. Harp" < harp@netcom.com>
To: linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi
Subject: Re: Recent silence on this channel...
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 92 19:31:06 -0700
X-Mn-Key: 680X0
Dave writes:
> I'm digesting the source right now, Greg. Neat stuff, although
>I think your style is going to drive me crazy. I need a pretty-printer
>that will do it my way. Anybody got a handy one?
Hey. I take that personally. ;)
Actually, my style evolved from ANSI and the fact that, as a software
contractor, many other people look at my code and have to be able to
read it. If you have trouble reading it, please explain why to me (in
private email) since it is important to my business career, not to
mention this project.
>> The basic task swapper is next on my list for development. I'm
>> certainly open to assistance on it.
>
> What do you have in mind so far?
Well, I need to spend more time with the 386 Linux swapper code before
I can say. I suppose that we'll do pretty much the same thing, except
where 386 primitives are concerned (e.g. TSS). As for the interrupt
source, I guess we'll use one of the CIA timers, although we need to
discuss more thoroughly which one we want to use.
BTW, with the ISR code as it is, it would be relatively easy to change
which timer is used in case we change our minds later on...
--
-----------------Greg-Harp----------------harp@netcom.com------------------
"I think I've reached that point / Where every word that you write /
Of every blood dark sea / And every soul black night / And every dream
you dream me in / And every perfect free from sin / And burning eyes /
And hearts on fire / Are just the same old song" -- The Cure
From owner-linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi Wed Oct 14 14:43:21 1992
Status: RO
X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil]
["99" "Wed" "14" "October" "92" "08:41:50" "-0400"
"Raul Deluth Miller-Rockwell" "rockwell@socrates.umd.edu" nil "4"
"where's the source?" "^From:" nil nil "10"])
Received: from joker.cs.hut.fi by hutcs.cs.hut.fi with SMTP id AA24959
(5.65c8/HUTCS-S 1.4 for < arl@cs.hut.fi>); Wed, 14 Oct 1992 14:43:18 +0200
Received: by joker.cs.hut.fi (5.65b/6.8/S-TeKoLa)
id AA08806; Wed, 14 Oct 92 14:42:12 +0200
Received: from socrates.umd.edu by joker.cs.hut.fi (5.65b/6.8/S-TeKoLa)
id AA08800; Wed, 14 Oct 92 14:42:08 +0200
Message-Id: <9210141242.AA08800@joker.cs.hut.fi>
Received: by socrates.umd.edu
(1.36.108.4.1.1/16.2) id AA22468; Wed, 14 Oct 92 08:41:50 -0400
Sender: owner-linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi
X-Note1: Remember to put 'X-Mn-Key: normal' to your mail body or header
From: Raul Deluth Miller-Rockwell < rockwell@socrates.umd.edu>
To: linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi
Subject: where's the source?
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 08:41:50 -0400
X-Mn-Key: 680X0
Where's the source?
--
Raul Deluth Miller-Rockwell < rockwell@socrates.umd.edu>
From owner-linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi Wed Oct 14 22:25:10 1992
Status: RO
X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil]
["751" "Wed" "14" "October" "92" "13:23:25" "-0700"
"\"Gregory O. Harp\"" "harp@netcom.com" nil "16" "Re: where's the source? "
"^From:" nil nil "10"])
Received: from joker.cs.hut.fi by hutcs.cs.hut.fi with SMTP id AA00946
(5.65c8/HUTCS-S 1.4 for < arl@cs.hut.fi>); Wed, 14 Oct 1992 22:25:08 +0200
Received: by joker.cs.hut.fi (5.65b/6.8/S-TeKoLa)
id AA16527; Wed, 14 Oct 92 22:23:59 +0159
Received: from netcom.netcom.com by joker.cs.hut.fi (5.65b/6.8/S-TeKoLa)
id AA16521; Wed, 14 Oct 92 22:23:55 +0159
Received: by netcom.netcom.com (5.65/SMI-4.1/Netcom)
id AA06463; Wed, 14 Oct 92 13:23:26 -0700
Message-Id: <9210142023.AA06463@netcom.netcom.com>
Sender: owner-linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi
X-Note1: Remember to put 'X-Mn-Key: normal' to your mail body or header
From: "Gregory O. Harp" < harp@netcom.com>
To: linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi
Subject: Re: where's the source?
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 13:23:25 -0700
X-Mn-Key: 680X0
>Where's the source?
At the moment, the source is only available to people who are actually
working on the development of the system. It's not much use to anyone
else. When there is enough of a system to make it worthwhile for
folks not working on it to download and test it, we will make it
publicly available.
Those who wish to work on the system should contact me via private
email.
--
-----------------Greg-Harp----------------harp@netcom.com------------------
"I think I've reached that point / Where every word that you write /
Of every blood dark sea / And every soul black night / And every dream
you dream me in / And every perfect free from sin / And burning eyes /
And hearts on fire / Are just the same old song" -- The Cure
From owner-linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi Thu Oct 15 01:51:35 1992
Status: RO
X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil]
["328" "Wed" "14" "October" "1992" "19:48:00" "+0000"
"\"Hamish (H.I.) Macdonald\"" "hamish@bnr.ca" nil "16"
"re:where's the source? " "^From:" nil nil "10"])
Received: from joker.cs.hut.fi by hutcs.cs.hut.fi with SMTP id AA01809
(5.65c8/HUTCS-S 1.4 for < arl@cs.hut.fi>); Thu, 15 Oct 1992 01:51:32 +0200
Received: by joker.cs.hut.fi (5.65b/6.8/S-TeKoLa)
id AA18895; Thu, 15 Oct 92 01:50:42 +0200
Received: from x400gate.bnr.ca by joker.cs.hut.fi (5.65b/6.8/S-TeKoLa)
id AA18889; Thu, 15 Oct 92 01:50:38 +0200
X400-Received: by mta bcars520 in /PRMD=BNR/ADMD=TELECOM.CANADA/C=CA/; Relayed;
Wed, 14 Oct 1992 19:50:36 -0400
X400-Received: by /PRMD=BNR/ADMD=TELECOM.CANADA/C=CA/; Relayed;
Wed, 14 Oct 1992 19:50:12 -0400
X400-Received: by /PRMD=BNR/ADMD=TELECOM.CANADA/C=CA/; Relayed;
Wed, 14 Oct 1992 15:48:00 -0400
X400-Originator: /DD.ID=1619692/G=Hamish/I=HI/S=Macdonald/@bnr.ca
X400-Mts-Identifier:
[/PRMD=BNR/ADMD=TELECOM.CANADA/C=CA/;bcars520.b.602:14.09.92.23.50.12]
Original-Encoded-Information-Types: ia5, undefined
X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2)
Content-Identifier: re:where's th...
Message-Id: <"12624 Wed Oct 14 19:50:30 1992"@bnr.ca>
Sender: owner-linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi
X-Note1: Remember to put 'X-Mn-Key: normal' to your mail body or header
From: "Hamish (H.I.) Macdonald" < hamish@bnr.ca>
To: linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi
Subject: re:where's the source?
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 19:48:00 +0000
X-Mn-Key: 680X0
>>>>> 'rockwell@socrates.umd.edu' wrote:
Raul> Where's the source?
Seconded...
I think a lot of people joined the mailing list after the early people
hashed out where source was going to be put.
I think that it would be valuable to have this information
re-broadcasted to the mailing list.
Thanks,
Hamish
From owner-linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi Thu Oct 15 02:52:40 1992
Status: RO
X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil]
["1340" "Wed" "14" "October" "92" "20:52:09" "EDT" "Dave Williams"
"dwilliam@jabba.ess.harris.com " nil "36" "re:where's the source?" "^From:" nil nil "10"])
Received: from joker.cs.hut.fi by hutcs.cs.hut.fi with SMTP id AA01869
(5.65c8/HUTCS-S 1.4 for < arl@cs.hut.fi>); Thu, 15 Oct 1992 02:52:37 +0200
Received: by joker.cs.hut.fi (5.65b/6.8/S-TeKoLa)
id AA19407; Thu, 15 Oct 92 02:52:09 +0200
Received: from su15a.ess.harris.com by joker.cs.hut.fi (5.65b/6.8/S-TeKoLa)
id AA19401; Thu, 15 Oct 92 02:52:05 +0200
Received: from jabba.ess.harris.com by ess.harris.com (4.1/SMI-4.0)
id AA06355; Wed, 14 Oct 92 20:52:13 EDT
Received: by jabba.ess.harris.com (4.1/SMI-4.1)
id AA07672; Wed, 14 Oct 92 20:52:09 EDT
Message-Id: <9210150052.AA07672@jabba.ess.harris.com>
Sender: owner-linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi
X-Note1: Remember to put 'X-Mn-Key: normal' to your mail body or header
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
From: dwilliam@jabba.ess.harris.com (Dave Williams)
To: linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi
Subject: re:where's the source?
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 92 20:52:09 EDT
X-Mn-Key: 680X0
> >>>>> 'rockwell@socrates.umd.edu' wrote:
>
> Raul> Where's the source?
>
> Seconded...
>
> I think a lot of people joined the mailing list after the early people
> hashed out where source was going to be put.
>
> I think that it would be valuable to have this information
> re-broadcasted to the mailing list.
>
Well, it's not actually like that. The people that actually volunteered
to do work on the thing currently have access to the source. The original
idea was to try to get some of the lurkers to get out there and get some
work done. Unfortunately, it dosen't seem to have worked. So, now we
look like nazis since the code is in a "hidden" place.
I actually have the code, and right now, you wouldn't get much out of
it. (It's basically a shell right now, that you'd run, get a few hardware
results, and then sit there and look at. - not very fascinating.)
Want to get the code? Start talking about how the thing should be put
together, then volunteer to do one of the things you've hammered out in
the discussions. Simple, no?
Hey, we're all friends here!
Dave Williams | My | Happy!
dwilliam@jabba.ess.harris.com | opinions | Happy!
"Huh? What? Could you repeat the question?" | only. | Joy! Joy!
From owner-linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi Thu Oct 15 15:53:14 1992
Status: RO
X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil]
["1377" "Thu" "15" "October" "92" "09:51:41" "-0400"
"Raul Deluth Miller-Rockwell" "rockwell@socrates.umd.edu" nil "33"
"re:where's the source?" "^From:" nil nil "10"])
Received: from joker.cs.hut.fi by hutcs.cs.hut.fi with SMTP id AA06848
(5.65c8/HUTCS-S 1.4 for < arl@cs.hut.fi>); Thu, 15 Oct 1992 15:53:11 +0200
Received: by joker.cs.hut.fi (5.65b/6.8/S-TeKoLa)
id AA06405; Thu, 15 Oct 92 15:52:09 +0200
Received: from socrates.umd.edu by joker.cs.hut.fi (5.65b/6.8/S-TeKoLa)
id AA06399; Thu, 15 Oct 92 15:52:01 +0200
Message-Id: <9210151352.AA06399@joker.cs.hut.fi>
Received: by socrates.umd.edu
(1.36.108.4.1.1/16.2) id AA07590; Thu, 15 Oct 92 09:51:41 -0400
Sender: owner-linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi
X-Note1: Remember to put 'X-Mn-Key: normal' to your mail body or header
In-Reply-To: <9210150052.AA07672@jabba.ess.harris.com> "dwilliam@jabba.ess.harris.com"
From: Raul Deluth Miller-Rockwell < rockwell@socrates.umd.edu>
To: linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi
Subject: re:where's the source?
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 09:51:41 -0400
X-Mn-Key: 680X0
Dave Williams:
I actually have the code, and right now, you wouldn't get much
out of it. (It's basically a shell right now, that you'd run, get
a few hardware results, and then sit there and look at. - not very
fascinating.)
Want to get the code? Start talking about how the thing should
be put together, then volunteer to do one of the things you've
hammered out in the discussions. Simple, no?
Well, hmm...
Is there a place where the "direction so far" has been stored? Sounds
like we need a statement of intent, if not some "real docs". No?
>From what I gather, you're not going to run this thing underneath
AmigaDOS [putting covers on amiga calls, copying stuff from managed
memory into dependably real memory / nailing down paged before using
message passing]. Which probably means re-writing the filing system
from scratch, and finding out that not all amigas have anything like
the same hardware. On the other hand, it would run faster, by perhaps
an order of magnitude?
I guess the first thing I should do is go over a copy of the '386
source, and find what's specifically assembly language, and hash out
what kind of functionality needs to be replaced.
However, I'm feeling like I'm shooting in the dark here. Hope I don't
get myself in the foot.
--
Raul Deluth Miller-Rockwell < rockwell@socrates.umd.edu>
From owner-linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi Thu Oct 15 21:58:59 1992
Status: RO
X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil]
["1954" "Thu" "15" "October" "92" "12:57:37" "-0700"
"\"Gregory O. Harp\"" "harp@netcom.com" nil "42" "Re: where's the source? "
"^From:" nil nil "10"])
Received: from joker.cs.hut.fi by hutcs.cs.hut.fi with SMTP id AA09094
(5.65c8/HUTCS-S 1.4 for < arl@cs.hut.fi>); Thu, 15 Oct 1992 21:58:57 +0159
Received: by joker.cs.hut.fi (5.65b/6.8/S-TeKoLa)
id AA12141; Thu, 15 Oct 92 21:58:19 +0200
Received: from netcom.netcom.com by joker.cs.hut.fi (5.65b/6.8/S-TeKoLa)
id AA12135; Thu, 15 Oct 92 21:58:10 +0200
Received: by netcom.netcom.com (5.65/SMI-4.1/Netcom)
id AA05938; Thu, 15 Oct 92 12:57:38 -0700
Message-Id: <9210151957.AA05938@netcom.netcom.com>
Sender: owner-linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi
X-Note1: Remember to put 'X-Mn-Key: normal' to your mail body or header
From: "Gregory O. Harp" < harp@netcom.com>
To: linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi
Subject: Re: where's the source?
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 92 12:57:37 -0700
X-Mn-Key: 680X0
Raul Deluth Miller-Rockwell < rockwell@socrates.umd.edu> writes:
>Is there a place where the "direction so far" has been stored? Sounds
>like we need a statement of intent, if not some "real docs". No?
Hmmm... If someone wanted to bother to write one that'd be OK. What
would be more useful would just be a digest of the list messages, I
think. Everything that would go into such a document has been
discussed here at least once.
I thought that a digest had been arranged, but I don't know of a
running (automated) one yet, and I haven't had the time to manually
digest the messages myself.
>From what I gather, you're not going to run this thing underneath
>AmigaDOS [putting covers on amiga calls, copying stuff from managed
>memory into dependably real memory / nailing down paged before using
>message passing]. Which probably means re-writing the filing system
>from scratch, and finding out that not all amigas have anything like
>the same hardware. On the other hand, it would run faster, by perhaps
>an order of magnitude?
Correct. The system will be running "on the metal". As for machine
differences, I'm not so sure that's as big a problem as you say. The
one area where there is a problem is SCSI drivers. Different
revisions of the custom chipset and differences in memory arrangements
are not a big deal.
>I guess the first thing I should do is go over a copy of the '386
>source, and find what's specifically assembly language, and hash out
>what kind of functionality needs to be replaced.
Having a copy of the 386 source is definitely a good idea. Quite
often we refer to "the way 386 Linux does it" and without the source
it's hard to know what we're talking about.
Right now, we're looking at developing the basic task management
routines. We plan to do this as similarly as possible to the 386
version, except of course the 386 code uses some features of that chip
that we don't have (TSS, for example).
--Greg
From owner-linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi Sat Oct 17 08:05:09 1992
Status: RO
X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil]
["1820" "Fri" "16" "October" "92" "23:02:06" "-0700"
"\"Gregory O. Harp\"" "harp@netcom.com" nil "36" "Geez..." "^From:" nil nil "10"])
Received: from joker.cs.hut.fi by hutcs.cs.hut.fi with SMTP id AA02241
(5.65c8/HUTCS-S 1.4 for < arl@cs.hut.fi>); Sat, 17 Oct 1992 08:05:07 +0200
Received: by joker.cs.hut.fi (5.65b/6.8/S-TeKoLa)
id AA11658; Sat, 17 Oct 92 08:02:46 +0159
Received: from netcom.netcom.com by joker.cs.hut.fi (5.65b/6.8/S-TeKoLa)
id AA11652; Sat, 17 Oct 92 08:02:42 +0200
Received: by netcom.netcom.com (5.65/SMI-4.1/Netcom)
id AA01131; Fri, 16 Oct 92 23:02:08 -0700
Message-Id: <9210170602.AA01131@netcom.netcom.com>
Sender: owner-linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi
X-Note1: Remember to put 'X-Mn-Key: normal' to your mail body or header
From: "Gregory O. Harp" < harp@netcom.com>
To: linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi
Subject: Geez...
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 23:02:06 -0700
X-Mn-Key: 680X0
That didn't take long. Someone, either a person who I mistakenly
trusted or who circumvented the security measures at our private FTP
site has posted the code at at least one public site.
I wouldn't bother searching for it and grabbing it. While I am
attempting to have it removed, it's not much use to anyone. There is
also always the possibility of a dangerous bug or two. My main
concern is that I didn't bother to include a disclaimer or copyright
message, and there are just too many lawyers to make me comfortable
with that situation...
So, from now until the system is ready for general release there will
be no more FTP site distribution of the code. Those who are actively
working on the system will simply have to resort to private
distribution among ourselves. Congratulations, whoever you are, for
screwing it up for the rest of us.
For those working on or wanting to work on the system, contact me
directly. I will attempt to arrange something. I hate to have to
resort to a "guilty until proven innocent" tactic, but there are only
four other people who have legal access that I know didn't upload the
files.
Those folks who have contacted me recently about access to the FTP
site, please email me again. The four folks I am thinking about have
had access for about as long as the site has been available (just so
you know who you are).
I don't figure the person who uploaded the files is man enough to
contact me and apologize...
--
-----------------Greg-Harp----------------harp@netcom.com------------------
"I think I've reached that point / Where every word that you write /
Of every blood dark sea / And every soul black night / And every dream
you dream me in / And every perfect free from sin / And burning eyes /
And hearts on fire / Are just the same old song" -- The Cure
From owner-linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi Sat Oct 17 18:36:45 1992
Status: RO
X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil]
["894" "Sat" "17" "October" "92" "12:34:41" "-0400"
"Theodore Ts'o" "tytso@ATHENA.MIT.EDU " nil "21" "Re: Geez..." "^From:" nil nil "10"])
Received: from joker.cs.hut.fi by hutcs.cs.hut.fi with SMTP id AA03249
(5.65c8/HUTCS-S 1.4 for < arl@cs.hut.fi>); Sat, 17 Oct 1992 18:36:37 +0200
Received: by joker.cs.hut.fi (5.65b/6.8/S-TeKoLa)
id AA16587; Sat, 17 Oct 92 18:34:41 +0200
Received: from TSX-11.MIT.EDU by joker.cs.hut.fi (5.65b/6.8/S-TeKoLa)
id AA16581; Sat, 17 Oct 92 18:34:36 +0200
Received: by tsx-11.MIT.EDU
with sendmail-5.61/1.2, id AA02173; Sat, 17 Oct 92 12:34:41 -0400
Message-Id: <9210171634.AA02173@tsx-11.MIT.EDU>
Sender: owner-linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi
X-Note1: Remember to put 'X-Mn-Key: normal' to your mail body or header
In-Reply-To: Gregory O. Harp's message of Fri, 16 Oct 92 23:02:06 -0700,
<9210170602.AA01131@netcom.netcom.com>
Address: 1 Amherst St., Cambridge, MA 02139
Phone: (617) 253-8091
From: tytso@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Theodore Ts'o)
To: linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi
Subject: Re: Geez...
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 92 12:34:41 -0400
Cc: linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi
Cc: johnsonm@stolaf.edu
X-Mn-Key: 680X0
X-Mn-Key: 680X0
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 92 23:02:06 -0700
From: "Gregory O. Harp" < harp@netcom.com>
That didn't take long. Someone, either a person who I mistakenly
trusted or who circumvented the security measures at our private FTP
site has posted the code at at least one public site.
Well, I was intending to beef up the security measures for the amiga
directory, but up until this weekend I had been overloaded with work.
Sorry for not fixing things sooner!
The directory /pub/linux/amiga is now protected so only someone who logs
in as "amigaftp" will be able to access it. I will be sending the
password directly to Gregory Harp, who may distribute it as he sees fit.
This also has the advantage that people who wish to share files will not
need the intervention of myself or another TSX-11 ftp admin to make the
files available, as you have in the past.
- Ted
From owner-linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi Sun Oct 18 14:34:37 1992
Status: RO
X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil]
["1840" "Sun" "18" "October" "92" "05:29:38" "-0700"
"\"Gregory O. Harp\"" "harp@netcom.com" nil "40" "Info Update" "^From:" nil nil "10"])
Received: from joker.cs.hut.fi by hutcs.cs.hut.fi with SMTP id AA06327
(5.65c8/HUTCS-S 1.4 for < arl@cs.hut.fi>); Sun, 18 Oct 1992 14:34:34 +0200
Received: by joker.cs.hut.fi (5.65b/6.8/S-TeKoLa)
id AA29537; Sun, 18 Oct 92 14:30:24 +0200
Received: from netcom.netcom.com by joker.cs.hut.fi (5.65b/6.8/S-TeKoLa)
id AA29523; Sun, 18 Oct 92 14:30:16 +0200
Received: by netcom.netcom.com (5.65/SMI-4.1/Netcom)
id AA01877; Sun, 18 Oct 92 05:29:39 -0700
Message-Id: <9210181229.AA01877@netcom.netcom.com>
Sender: owner-linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi
X-Note1: Remember to put 'X-Mn-Key: normal' to your mail body or header
From: "Gregory O. Harp" < harp@netcom.com>
To: linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi
Subject: Info Update
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 92 05:29:38 -0700
X-Mn-Key: 680X0
Well, we're up to 60 members.
BTW, for those who have asked, GCC 2.2.2 for AmigaDOS (the compiler
we're using) should be available at wuarchive.wustl.edu. Check the
ls-lR file for the exact location since the last time I checked it
was under the incoming directory -- i.e. if it hasn't moved it
probably will eventually. Right now I wouldn't bother grabbing
the compiler unless you plan to work on the system in its early
stages.
Once we have enough to distribute, the compiler will come in useful.
Even if you don't plan to do any development, there will be patches
and additions.
We are currently restricting the availability of the source code to
the "development team." There are currently six members of this team
including me, only three of which are actively working on the system
[Granted, one member has an excuse -- no Amiga. ;) ] If you're
wondering if you're one of the six, well, you'll already have received
email from me this morning about it if so. Please don't be offended
if you're not included. The list of six comes from those who asked to
have access to the FTP site.
Anyone who is willing and capable (and has the spare time) is welcome
to join us. Contact me directly if you wish to help out.
Our recent security problem has been taken care of, to the best of my
knowledge. Meanwhile, I'll be adding some copyleft info and
disclaimers to the release. I should have done this in the first
place, I guess, but I was trying to get it done and released.
I expect that the first general release of the system will come once
we have the basic system running. (i.e. enough to get through the
init stage, basic binutils, etc)
Right now, the most important feature in the works is the task
swapper. I invite discussion about how this should be implemented.
MM plans are also on the drawing board.
--Greg
From owner-linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi Tue Oct 20 07:16:52 1992
Received: from joker.cs.hut.fi by hutcs.cs.hut.fi with SMTP id AA18549
(5.65c8/HUTCS-S 1.4 for < arl@cs.hut.fi>); Tue, 20 Oct 1992 07:16:50 +0159
Received: by joker.cs.hut.fi (5.65b/6.8/S-TeKoLa)
id AA08628; Tue, 20 Oct 92 07:14:52 +0159
Received: from netcom.netcom.com by joker.cs.hut.fi (5.65b/6.8/S-TeKoLa)
id AA08622; Tue, 20 Oct 92 07:14:47 +0159
Received: by netcom.netcom.com (5.65/SMI-4.1/Netcom)
id AA27567; Mon, 19 Oct 92 22:14:05 -0700
Message-Id: <9210200514.AA27567@netcom.netcom.com>
Sender: owner-linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi
To: linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi
X-Note1: Remember to put 'X-Mn-Key: normal' to your mail body or header
Cc: harp@netcom.com
Subject: Amiga Linux Kernel Release 0.00a
X-Mn-Key: 680X0
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 92 22:14:04 -0700
From: "Gregory O. Harp" < harp@netcom.com>
For those of you who are part of the development team, release 0.00a
of the kernel source is at the FTP site. Since the general
functionality of the code is the same (except for one or two very
minor things) I didn't feel like this was a full patch level higher
than the previous version, thus the 'a'.
The major change between this version and the previous one is the
addition of the GNU General Public License to the archive, along with
mention of it in every source file. Please see that the headers of
your own files contain a similar message. Other than that, version
information has been added to the bootstrap and kernel startup
messages and one minor bug (actually typo -- it didn't affect the
function) was fixed in the serial code.
I will have some free time in the next few days to do some more work
on the printk and general library-level functions. I am open to
starting on the task swapper code anytime, but I'd prefer to have some
more discussion on it first. Also, to Dave and FMS, how is the
console code going?
BTW, Michael, I realize I have been neglecting the journal. I will
try to bring it up to date and send it to you ASAP.
That's all for now...
--
-----------------Greg-Harp----------------harp@netcom.com------------------
"I think I've reached that point / Where every word that you write /
Of every blood dark sea / And every soul black night / And every dream
you dream me in / And every perfect free from sin / And burning eyes /
And hearts on fire / Are just the same old song" -- The Cure
From owner-linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi Wed Oct 28 13:57:24 1992
Status: RO
X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil]
["933" "Wed" "28" "October" "92" "11:54:01" "GMT" "dcc@dcs.ed.ac.uk"
"dcc@dcs.ed.ac.uk" nil "25" "Amiga Unix" "^From:" nil nil "10"])
Received: from joker.cs.hut.fi by hutcs.cs.hut.fi with SMTP id AA03235
(5.65c8/HUTCS-S 1.4 for < arl@cs.hut.fi>); Wed, 28 Oct 1992 13:57:19 +0200
Received: by joker.cs.hut.fi (5.65b/6.8/S-TeKoLa)
id AA11594; Wed, 28 Oct 92 13:54:52 +0159
Received: from stroma.dcs.ed.ac.uk by joker.cs.hut.fi (5.65b/6.8/S-TeKoLa)
id AA11588; Wed, 28 Oct 92 13:54:48 +0159
Received: from garay.dcs.ed.ac.uk by dcs.ed.ac.uk id aa11876;
28 Oct 92 11:54 GMT
Message-Id: <6059.9210281154@garay.dcs.ed.ac.uk>
Sender: owner-linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi
X-Note1: Remember to put 'X-Mn-Key: normal' to your mail body or header
From: dcc@dcs.ed.ac.uk
To: linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi
Subject: Amiga Unix
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 92 11:54:01 GMT
X-Mn-Key: 680X0
Hi
I am interested in getting inolved with the Linux -> Amiga project or whatever.
I would be grateful if someone could answer the following and/or send me the
FAQ for this channel:
1. I have the follwing system, what are the essential/recommended
upgrades to run Mach etc.:
Amiga 500 Plus, 2MB Chip, No Fast, KS2.04
CSA-MMR '030, with MMU, no FPU, 4MB 32-bit RAM
Xetec SCSI contoller, 52MB HD
2. Where (pref. Europe) can I obtain Mach etc. by ftp?
3. Who should I contact about getting involved in the project (writing
some code myself :-)?
Sorry for the bandwidth,
Dave.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Crooke, Dept. of Computer Science, Uni. of Edinburgh. dcc@dcs.ed.ac.uk
Home: 22a Montgomery St., Edinburgh, SCOTLAND EH7 5JS. Tel: 031 556 0265
Work: JCMB Rm 3310, King's Bldgs, W Mains Rd., Edinburgh EH9 3JZ. 031 650 6013
From owner-linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi Thu Nov 5 00:19:10 1992
Status: RO
X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil]
["1857" "Wed" "4" "November" "92" "17:08:44" "EST" "Dave Williams"
"dwilliam@jabba.ess.harris.com " nil "39" "Task switcher stuff" "^From:" nil nil "11"])
Received: from joker.cs.hut.fi by hutcs.cs.hut.fi with SMTP id AA04642
(5.65c8/HUTCS-S 1.4 for < arl@cs.hut.fi>); Thu, 5 Nov 1992 00:19:03 +0200
Received: by joker.cs.hut.fi (5.65b/6.8/S-TeKoLa)
id AA16763; Thu, 5 Nov 92 00:09:13 +0200
Received: from su15a.ess.harris.com by joker.cs.hut.fi (5.65b/6.8/S-TeKoLa)
id AA16757; Thu, 5 Nov 92 00:09:06 +0200
Received: from jabba.ess.harris.com by ess.harris.com (4.1/SMI-4.0)
id AA27474; Wed, 4 Nov 92 17:08:46 EST
Received: by jabba.ess.harris.com (4.1/SMI-4.1)
id AA11412; Wed, 4 Nov 92 17:08:45 EST
Message-Id: <9211042208.AA11412@jabba.ess.harris.com>
Sender: owner-linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi
X-Note1: Remember to put 'X-Mn-Key: normal' to your mail body or header
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
From: dwilliam@jabba.ess.harris.com (Dave Williams)
To: linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi
Subject: Task switcher stuff
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 92 17:08:44 EST
X-Mn-Key: 680X0
Well, since noone has been talking in the last week, and Greg
just jump-started us, I'll throw out a few comments on the Task
scheduler stuff.
I'm not going to comment on the stuff that has to do with the
processes themselves, since that's part of the kernel code we can
probably steal from the 386 version. What we need to do is fill
in the stuff that the 386 handles for the kernel via the protected
mode tables (tss, gdt, and so on).
First off, we need to worry about the '030's registers. Where
do we keep them? The usual method is to leave the registers on the
process stack, since they were pushed there by whatever interrupt
we are using to do preemptive switching. One gotcha that could bite
us here is if the kernel uses a seperate stack from the user process.
IMHO, using a seperate stack is a Bad Thing. Anyway, all we have to
do is store the Stack pointers for the current task in it's task table
entry. Next, load up the stack pointer for the next task on the ready
queue (or however we decide to do it) and do a RTI.
Except is not that simple. We need to load up the MMU registers
for this task. Yep, the MMU dosen't do it's thing automatically
like the in 386 protected mode. I'm not very confident on '030
MMU programming. Anyone else want to comment, before I go take
a serious gander at my '030 manuals?
Next thing to worry about: FPU registers. We've got the same
problem here. We need to make sure the FPU registers agree with
the state we're switching too. Comments?
This is a brief list of stuff to consider - feel free to
throw in a few of your own.
Dave Williams | I'm lucky if I can
dwilliam@jabba.ess.harris.com | even spell opinion,
"Huh? What? Could you repeat the question?" | much less have them.
From owner-linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi Mon Nov 9 12:31:04 1992
Status: RO
X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil]
["579" "Mon" "9" "November" "92" "10:24:33" "GMT" "dcc@dcs.ed.ac.uk"
"dcc@dcs.ed.ac.uk" nil "14" "Anything happening?" "^From:" nil nil "11"])
Received: from joker.cs.hut.fi by hutcs.cs.hut.fi with SMTP id AA13091
(5.65c8/HUTCS-S 1.4 for < arl@cs.hut.fi>); Mon, 9 Nov 1992 12:30:52 +0159
Received: by joker.cs.hut.fi (5.65b/6.8/S-TeKoLa)
id AA28617; Mon, 9 Nov 92 12:27:50 +0159
Received: from stroma.dcs.ed.ac.uk by joker.cs.hut.fi (5.65b/6.8/S-TeKoLa)
id AA28603; Mon, 9 Nov 92 12:27:44 +0200
Received: from balta.dcs.ed.ac.uk by dcs.ed.ac.uk id aa16544; 9 Nov 92 10:24 GMT
Message-Id: <9822.9211091024@balta.dcs.ed.ac.uk>
Sender: owner-linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi
X-Note1: Remember to put 'X-Mn-Key: normal' to your mail body or header
From: dcc@dcs.ed.ac.uk
To: linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi
Subject: Anything happening?
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 92 10:24:33 GMT
Cc: linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi
X-Mn-Key: 680X0
X-Mn-Key: 680x0
Is anything happening? Greg Harp said the only thing people could do
at the moment is to become active in this channel, alors voici!
Please keep us informed (better yet busy). Unix for all!
Dave.
P.S. Boo hiss to Commodore! Amiga A1200 has no MMU!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Crooke, Dept. of Computer Science, Uni. of Edinburgh. dcc@dcs.ed.ac.uk
Home: 22a Montgomery St., Edinburgh, SCOTLAND EH7 5JS. Tel: 031 556 0265
Work: JCMB Rm 3310, King's Bldgs, W Mains Rd., Edinburgh EH9 3JZ. 031 650 6013
From owner-linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi Mon Nov 9 17:52:08 1992
Status: RO
X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil]
["1192" "Mon" "9" "November" "92" "10:47:45" "EST" "Dave Williams"
"dwilliam@jabba.ess.harris.com " nil "25" "Re: Anything happening?" "^From:" nil nil "11"])
Received: from joker.cs.hut.fi by hutcs.cs.hut.fi with SMTP id AA16167
(5.65c8/HUTCS-S 1.4 for < arl@cs.hut.fi>); Mon, 9 Nov 1992 17:52:04 +0200
Received: by joker.cs.hut.fi (5.65b/6.8/S-TeKoLa)
id AA04507; Mon, 9 Nov 92 17:48:00 +0200
Received: from su15a.ess.harris.com by joker.cs.hut.fi (5.65b/6.8/S-TeKoLa)
id AA04496; Mon, 9 Nov 92 17:47:51 +0159
Received: from jabba.ess.harris.com by ess.harris.com (4.1/SMI-4.0)
id AA15033; Mon, 9 Nov 92 10:47:47 EST
Received: from pizza.ess.harris.com by jabba.ess.harris.com (4.1/SMI-4.1)
id AA15024; Mon, 9 Nov 92 10:47:47 EST
Message-Id: <9211091547.AA15024@jabba.ess.harris.com>
Sender: owner-linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi
X-Note1: Remember to put 'X-Mn-Key: normal' to your mail body or header
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
From: dwilliam@jabba.ess.harris.com (Dave Williams)
To: linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi
Subject: Re: Anything happening?
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 92 10:47:45 EST
X-Mn-Key: 680X0
> Is anything happening? Greg Harp said the only thing people could do
> at the moment is to become active in this channel, alors voici!
> Please keep us informed (better yet busy). Unix for all!
Yeah, that's pretty much it so far. We're not far enough into the
development for the Amiga Linux kernel to be fun to look at yet. (I'm
still building the keyboard driver, FMS is working on the display driver,
and Greg is kicking around ideas for the task switcher. (Did I miss
anyone else?)) What did you think about the stuff I threw out about the
task tables in my last posting? Comments please!
> Dave.
>
> P.S. Boo hiss to Commodore! Amiga A1200 has no MMU!
Hummm. Good point. I hadn't considered that. Well, the simple
answer is that you can drop an '030 into an '020 socket with a fairly
non-complex adapter board. You loose the '030's burst mode and cache
interface, but you do gain the MMU. Something to think about, anyway.
Dave Williams | I'm lucky if I can
dwilliam@jabba.ess.harris.com | even spell opinion,
"Huh? What? Could you repeat the question?" | much less have them.
From owner-linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi Tue Nov 10 13:12:30 1992
Status: RO
X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil]
["788" "Tue" "10" "November" "1992" "12:09:07" "+0100" "Jens Kuespert"
"jk@wowbagger.pc-labor.uni-bremen.de " nil "31" "What's needed ?" "^From:" nil nil "11"])
Received: from joker.cs.hut.fi by hutcs.cs.hut.fi with SMTP id AA22227
(5.65c8/HUTCS-S 1.4 for < arl@cs.hut.fi>); Tue, 10 Nov 1992 13:12:23 +0200
Received: by joker.cs.hut.fi (5.65b/6.8/S-TeKoLa)
id AA09046; Tue, 10 Nov 92 13:09:48 +0159
Received: from ines.zfn.uni-bremen.de by joker.cs.hut.fi (5.65b/6.8/S-TeKoLa)
id AA09032; Tue, 10 Nov 92 13:09:29 +0200
Received: from alf.zfn.uni-bremen.de by ines.zfn.uni-bremen.de (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03-i4)
id AA09920; Tue, 10 Nov 1992 12:08:58 +0100
Received: from wowbagger.pc-labor.uni-bremen.de by alf.zfn.uni-bremen.de
(AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03-k4)
id AA53327; Tue, 10 Nov 1992 12:08:00 +0100
Message-Id: <9211101108.AA53327@alf.zfn.uni-bremen.de>
Received: by wowbagger.pc-labor.uni-bremen.de (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.07)
Tue, 10 Nov 1992 12:09:07 +0100
Sender: owner-linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi
X-Note1: Remember to put 'X-Mn-Key: normal' to your mail body or header
In-Reply-To: Dave Williams's message of Mon, 9 Nov 92 10:47:45 EST
<9211091547.AA15024@jabba.ess.harris.com>
From: jk@wowbagger.pc-labor.uni-bremen.de (Jens Kuespert)
To: linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi
Subject: What's needed ?
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1992 12:09:07 +0100
X-Mn-Key: 680X0
Hello !
I'm new to this list, so I don't know if this has been asked before...
What hardware requiements does (better will) Linux have? I understand
that a MMU is a must. But there are many of processor-cards around.
Which one can be used? The `original' cbm a2630?
And what is with the harddisk-controlers? Which are going to be supported?
Thank you!
-- Jens --
____________________________________________
Jens Kuespert , Buntentorsteinweg 576,
2800 Bremen 1
Email
(NeXTmail ok)
____________________________________________
Real Programmers always confuse Christmas
and Halloween because
OCT 31 == DEC 25 !!
-- Andrew Rutherford
(andrew@ucs.adelaide.edu.au)
____________________________________________
From owner-linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi Tue Nov 10 21:11:35 1992
Status: RO
X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil]
["2698" "Tue" "10" "November" "92" "11:10:34" "EST" "Dave Williams"
"dwilliam@jabba.ess.harris.com " nil "50" "Re: What's needed?" "^From:" nil nil "11"])
Received: from joker.cs.hut.fi by hutcs.cs.hut.fi with SMTP id AA24910
(5.65c8/HUTCS-S 1.4 for < arl@cs.hut.fi>); Tue, 10 Nov 1992 21:11:32 +0200
Received: by joker.cs.hut.fi (5.65b/6.8/S-TeKoLa)
id AA15764; Tue, 10 Nov 92 21:09:21 +0200
Received: from su15a.ess.harris.com by joker.cs.hut.fi (5.65b/6.8/S-TeKoLa)
id AB15756; Tue, 10 Nov 92 21:09:14 +0200
Received: from jabba.ess.harris.com by ess.harris.com (4.1/SMI-4.0)
id AA02906; Tue, 10 Nov 92 14:09:22 EST
Received: from pizza.ess.harris.com by jabba.ess.harris.com (4.1/SMI-4.1)
id AA08681; Tue, 10 Nov 92 11:10:38 EST
Message-Id: <9211101610.AA08681@jabba.ess.harris.com>
Sender: owner-linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi
X-Note1: Remember to put 'X-Mn-Key: normal' to your mail body or header
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
From: dwilliam@jabba.ess.harris.com (Dave Williams)
To: linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi
Subject: Re: What's needed?
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 92 11:10:34 EST
X-Mn-Key: 680X0
> I'm new to this list, so I don't know if this has been asked before...
Well, this list is fairly new, so don't sweat it.
> What hardware requiements does (better will) Linux have? I understand
> that a MMU is a must. But there are many of processor-cards around.
> Which one can be used? The `original' cbm a2630?
As far as I've been able to scope out, just about any way you can tack
an '030 or an '020 with MMU onto your Amiga is going to be fair game. We
had a fairly big discussion right at the start on how to support multiple
CPU types. It turns out that the MMU in the '040 and '030 have enough in
common with the original PMMU chip that we can safely ignore the differences.
Greg went ahead and gritted his teeth and required that the target system
have some form of fast RAM, wheather that be 16-bit FAST RAM or 32-bit RAM
on your accelerator board. (That way, we avoid custom chip problems with
the stuff in CHIP RAM.)
> And what is with the harddisk-controlers? Which are going to be supported?
We haven't really considered it yet. This is probably going to require
manufacturer support, or something like that. Unfortunately, most of the
drivers for Amigados require lotsa exec and DOS stuff to do their thing,
so we couldn't just drop in an AmigaDOS driver. Tell you what - If you're
interested, could you do a quick look to find out what kind of support we
might expect? (Anyone else is welcome to take a look, too.)
One interesting (and REALLY ugly) way to handle this would be to put
together a system like the old WEDGE system, which put an XT controller
on the Amiga 1000's expansion connector. (there was an A500 version, too.)
There was a public domain system called the Palomax that did the same thing.
[Put down that bat - lemme explain more!] The idea is that Linux already
has hd.c, which is the interface for common AT-bus controller cards for
MFM drives. That should be an easy port if the hardware is on the Amiga,
no?
The old A1000 WEDGE system had a wierd interface card that converted
the expansion bus to an XT-style slot. You A2000/A3000 owners could make
a "dumb" bridgeboard that could do the same thing. In that case, you'd
already have the mechanical connectors for the card there.
Of course, this is only a stop-gap measure untill we got some real
support from the manufacturers for new drivers. Anybody wanna call
CATS and see how their UNIX team dealt with this problem?
Dave Williams | I'm lucky if I can
dwilliam@jabba.ess.harris.com | even spell opinion,
"Huh? What? Could you repeat the question?" | much less have them.
From owner-linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi Wed Nov 11 16:03:47 1992
Status: RO
X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil]
["295" "Wed" "11" "November" "1992" "14:57:56" "+0000"
"Joerg Hessdoerfer" "Joerg.Hessdoerfer@europa.rs.kp.dlr.de" nil "12"
"none" "^From:" nil nil "11"])
Received: from joker.cs.hut.fi by hutcs.cs.hut.fi with SMTP id AA01726
(5.65c8/HUTCS-S 1.4 for < arl@cs.hut.fi>); Wed, 11 Nov 1992 16:03:35 +0200
Received: by joker.cs.hut.fi (5.65b/6.8/S-TeKoLa)
id AA11302; Wed, 11 Nov 92 16:00:18 +0200
Received: from musc3.rs.kp.dlr.de by joker.cs.hut.fi (5.65b/6.8/S-TeKoLa)
id AA11271; Wed, 11 Nov 92 15:59:34 +0200
Received: from europa.rs.kp.dlr.de by musc4.rs.kp.dlr.de (MX V3.1C) with SMTP;
Wed, 11 Nov 1992 13:58:29 GMT
Received: from QuickMail by europa.rs.kp.dlr.de id qm-00001; Wed, 11 Nov 1992
14:57:56 +0000
Message-Id: <199211111457563889@europa.rs.kp.dlr.de>
X-Mailer: InterCon Dispatcher/SMTP for QuickMail
X-Priority: 4
Sender: owner-linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi
X-Note1: Remember to put 'X-Mn-Key: normal' to your mail body or header
From: Joerg Hessdoerfer < Joerg.Hessdoerfer@europa.rs.kp.dlr.de>
To: linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi
Subject: none
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 14:57:56 +0000
X-Mn-Key: 680X0
Hi!
I'm working on a atari TT030, and I'd like to port the drivers (as far as
being done) to the
atari. I would be grateful for specifications and general information.
Btw, I hope you write the kernel stuff system independent, to make life easier
for other
680X0 porters.
Joe
From owner-linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi Wed Nov 11 18:14:23 1992
Status: RO
X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil]
["1930" "Wed" "11" "November" "1992" "10:09:29" "-0500"
"Dave Williams" "dwilliam@jabba.ess.harris.com " nil "44"
"Re: Atari port (was: none)" "^From:" nil nil "11"])
Received: from joker.cs.hut.fi by hutcs.cs.hut.fi with SMTP id AA02652
(5.65c8/HUTCS-S 1.4 for < arl@cs.hut.fi>); Wed, 11 Nov 1992 18:14:19 +0200
Received: by joker.cs.hut.fi (5.65b/6.8/S-TeKoLa)
id AA13406; Wed, 11 Nov 92 18:10:05 +0200
Received: from su15a.ess.harris.com by joker.cs.hut.fi (5.65b/6.8/S-TeKoLa)
id AA13400; Wed, 11 Nov 92 18:09:59 +0159
Received: from jabba.ess.harris.com by ess.harris.com (4.1/SMI-4.0)
id AA09589; Wed, 11 Nov 92 11:10:03 EST
Received: from pizza.ess.harris.com by jabba.ess.harris.com (4.1/SMI-4.1)
id AA04403; Wed, 11 Nov 92 10:09:31 EST
Message-Id: <9211111509.AA04403@jabba.ess.harris.com>
Sender: owner-linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi
X-Note1: Remember to put 'X-Mn-Key: normal' to your mail body or header
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL8]
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 1930
From: dwilliam@jabba.ess.harris.com (Dave Williams)
To: linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi
Subject: Re: Atari port (was: none)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 10:09:29 -0500 (EST)
X-Mn-Key: 680X0
> Hi!
Hello
> I'm working on a atari TT030, and I'd like to port the drivers (as far as
> being done) to the atari. I would be grateful for specifications and
> general information.
Ah! A non-amiga person! Welcome to the list. Here's what we have,
spec-wise, so far:
Machine needs a minimum of 4 Meg of memory (what does the TT030 have?)
MMU (of course) - you've got an 030 - no prob.
GCC 2.2.2 or better
That's it, so far. (Can you tell we're still in the early stages?)
Current work on the Amiga: console driver (two parts - keyboard and
display), interrupt service routines (a standard)
> Btw, I hope you write the kernel stuff system independent, to make life
> easier for other 680X0 porters.
We've made a general attempt so far, but haven't really had much input
from non-amiga people. Here's a question for you: What sort of interrupt
system does the TT030 have? The Amiga motherboards are capable of generating
up to 14 different interrupts, which are multiplexed on the 7 hardware
interrupt levels of the 680x0. I'd be willing to bet that the current ISR
stuff probably runs pretty close to this model. We should take a look at
what other machines look like, along these lines.
How many interrupts does the TT030 motherboard generate, and what 680x0
proiority levels are they mapped too?
You'll have to write serial code drivers and a console (keyboard and
display) driver for the Atari. The Amiga's bootloader will probably have
to be redone completely for the Atari, since it makes heavy use of the
Amiga's RAM format (CHIP, FAST) and depends on the Autoconfig (tm) stuff
to tell the bootloader what hardware is where.
Dave Williams | I'm lucky if I can
dwilliam@jabba.ess.harris.com | even spell opinion,
"Huh? What? Could you repeat the question?" | much less have one.
From owner-linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi Wed Nov 11 18:55:32 1992
Status: RO
X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil]
["1446" "Wed" "11" "November" "1992" "17:49:24" "+0000"
"Joerg Hessdoerfer" "Joerg.Hessdoerfer@europa.rs.kp.dlr.de" nil "33"
"TT030 specs..." "^From:" nil nil "11"])
Received: from joker.cs.hut.fi by hutcs.cs.hut.fi with SMTP id AA02812
(5.65c8/HUTCS-S 1.4 for < arl@cs.hut.fi>); Wed, 11 Nov 1992 18:55:28 +0200
Received: by joker.cs.hut.fi (5.65b/6.8/S-TeKoLa)
id AA13928; Wed, 11 Nov 92 18:51:24 +0200
Received: from musc3.rs.kp.dlr.de by joker.cs.hut.fi (5.65b/6.8/S-TeKoLa)
id AA13921; Wed, 11 Nov 92 18:50:55 +0159
Received: from europa.rs.kp.dlr.de by musc4.rs.kp.dlr.de (MX V3.1C) with SMTP;
Wed, 11 Nov 1992 16:49:57 GMT
Received: from QuickMail by europa.rs.kp.dlr.de id qm-00001; Wed, 11 Nov 1992
17:49:24 +0000
Message-Id: <199211111749242651@europa.rs.kp.dlr.de>
X-Mailer: InterCon Dispatcher/SMTP for QuickMail
X-Priority: 4
Sender: owner-linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi
X-Note1: Remember to put 'X-Mn-Key: normal' to your mail body or header
From: Joerg Hessdoerfer < Joerg.Hessdoerfer@europa.rs.kp.dlr.de>
To: linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi
Subject: TT030 specs...
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 17:49:24 +0000
X-Mn-Key: 680X0
Something about the machine:
A TT03 initially comes with a minimum of 2meg RAM (similar to the
AMIGA's chip mem). One can upgrade that to 8meg. AMIGA alike fast RAM
may also be incorporated, up to 64meg on board, as far as I know.
(But that seems only limited by available boards, now!)
The interrupt system is quite complex:
The TT has two 68901 mfp (multi-function-peripheral) chips on board,
which may generate 16 auto-vector interrupts (each).
Interrupt sources for that are timers, serial interfaces, and so on.
Futher the system generates the usual interrupts:
VBL, HBL and so on alongside DMA requests for ACSI and SCSI,
as well as a VME interrupt (yes, the TT has a VME bus slot!
what's ACSI? Atari Computer System Interface, a downgraded SCSI,
used on the ST and for compatibility on the TT, too).
I don't know about the correct assignments to the 680X0 interrupt levels
here (but I'll tell you as soon as I get hold on the docs and am back here).
The ST, (68000, but lots of people have accelerator boards with 030s)
uses only levels 1,3 and 5 and multiplexes sources to them (it only has
one mfp, to which the first TT-mfp is compatible), but I think the TT
uses all levels (even NMI, level 7).
A question back:
What type of interface do the drivers implement?
How can I get hold on current documentation and/or source code?
Oops, this are two, or not?!?:-)
Next time I'll give precise info! I promise!
Joe
From owner-linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi Wed Nov 11 20:28:56 1992
Status: RO
X-VM-v5-Data: ([nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil]
["3506" "Wed" "11" "November" "1992" "13:25:04" "-0500" "Dave Williams"
"dwilliam@jabba.ess.harris.com " nil "75" "Re: TT030 specs..." "^From:" nil nil "11"])
Received: from joker.cs.hut.fi by hutcs.cs.hut.fi with SMTP id AA03189
(5.65c8/HUTCS-S 1.4 for < arl@cs.hut.fi>); Wed, 11 Nov 1992 20:28:53 +0159
Received: by joker.cs.hut.fi (5.65b/6.8/S-TeKoLa)
id AA15181; Wed, 11 Nov 92 20:25:15 +0200
Received: from su15a.ess.harris.com by joker.cs.hut.fi (5.65b/6.8/S-TeKoLa)
id AA15175; Wed, 11 Nov 92 20:25:09 +0200
Received: from jabba.ess.harris.com by ess.harris.com (4.1/SMI-4.0)
id AA13499; Wed, 11 Nov 92 13:25:09 EST
Received: from pizza.ess.harris.com by jabba.ess.harris.com (4.1/SMI-4.1)
id AA08082; Wed, 11 Nov 92 13:25:06 EST
Message-Id: <9211111825.AA08082@jabba.ess.harris.com>
Sender: owner-linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi
X-Note1: Remember to put 'X-Mn-Key: normal' to your mail body or header
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL8]
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 3506
From: dwilliam@jabba.ess.harris.com (Dave Williams)
To: linux-activists@joker.cs.hut.fi
Subject: Re: TT030 specs...
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1992 13:25:04 -0500 (EST)
X-Mn-Key: 680X0
> Something about the machine:
> A TT03 initially comes with a minimum of 2meg RAM (similar to the
> AMIGA's chip mem). One can upgrade that to 8meg. AMIGA alike fast RAM
> may also be incorporated, up to 64meg on board, as far as I know.
> (But that seems only limited by available boards, now!)
Does the TT030 have the same problem with it's nominal RAM like
the Amiga CHIP RAM where there's lotsa various hardware competing for
memory cycles? The Amiga group (read: Greg) decided that futzing around
with the internal RAM was asking for too many problems in terms of mapping
it into the MMU that it just wasn't worth the trouble. (This is mainly
due to the rasters for the video memory and stuff)
> The interrupt system is quite complex:
> The TT has two 68901 mfp (multi-function-peripheral) chips on board,
> which may generate 16 auto-vector interrupts (each).
> Interrupt sources for that are timers, serial interfaces, and so on.
Auto-vector interrupts: hummmm. I don't think we've allowed for that
in the current ISR stuff. I'll have to let Greg comment on that one. It
*shouldn't* be too hard to map the ISR stuff to support auto-vector sources.
> Futher the system generates the usual interrupts:
> VBL, HBL and so on alongside DMA requests for ACSI and SCSI,
> as well as a VME interrupt (yes, the TT has a VME bus slot!
Cool. That's one of the neater things about the TT030, IMHO.
> what's ACSI? Atari Computer System Interface, a downgraded SCSI,
> used on the ST and for compatibility on the TT, too).
Huh?
> I don't know about the correct assignments to the 680X0 interrupt levels
> here (but I'll tell you as soon as I get hold on the docs and am back here).
> The ST, (68000, but lots of people have accelerator boards with 030s)
> uses only levels 1,3 and 5 and multiplexes sources to them (it only has
> one mfp, to which the first TT-mfp is compatible), but I think the TT
> uses all levels (even NMI, level 7).
>
> A question back:
> What type of interface do the drivers implement?
I can't answer this yet. I simply don't know. I've been hacking the
keyboard driver under my own pseudo-driver routine that just calls all
of the code at the right parts. I would imagine the eventual driver will
work via a open()-type call with ioctl() calls to do the manipulations.
See the PC Linux source code for more information.
> How can I get hold on current documentation and/or source code?
You're reading the current documentation. :-) No, seriously, Greg
has a batch of stuff he can mail to you if you want. Current source
code is at at tsx-11.mit.edu, but it's in a protected directory. You'd
probably learn more by looking at the PC Linux source code first, to get
an idea of what the kernel looks like inside. You can get the source
from tsx-11, I forget the subdirectory (/pub/linux/source/system maybe?)
Greg is trying to limit the spread of the current Amiga Linux kernel
untill it gets to a state where it can actually do something useful.
Contact harp@netcom.com (Greg Harp) for more info about getting permission
for the ftp directory on tsx-11.
> Oops, this are two, or not?!?:-)
Hey, no sweat.
> Next time I'll give precise info! I promise!
Shall I hold you to that? Just kidding...
Dave Williams | I'm lucky if I can
dwilliam@jabba.ess.harris.com | even spell opinion,
"Huh? What? Could you repeat the question?" | much less have one.