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From: jqu...@bnlnr.hfbr.bnl.gov
Subject: Novell and Linux, again
Message-ID: <1994May11.152209.8725@bnlux1.bnl.gov>
Sender: n...@bnlux1.bnl.gov (Usenet news)
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Date: Wed, 11 May 1994 15:22:09 GMT
Lines: 92
THE ARTICLE BELOW APPEARED IN THE CURRENT EDITION
OF PC WEEK (please excuse me Ziff-Davis).
Unforunately the questions of 'charging', 'cost',
etc.... are still not addressed.
Jim Quinn
bnlnr.hfbr.bnl.gov
PC Week May 9, 1994 Page 63
Linux freeware posed to make commercial splash
by Anne Knowles
Novell Inc.'s possible use of Linux in a future desktop
offering could give the Unixlike operating system, which
has spent the bulk of its existence as freeware on the
Internet, the endorsement it needs to make a splash in the
commerical world.
So say users and distributors of Linux, the POSIX-compliant
PC operating system that is available under a GNU Public
License. Novell, of Provo, Utah, is reportedly using Linux
to develop a graphical, 32-bit desktop operating system that
can run DOS, Windows, Netware, and Unix applications (PC Week,
April 25, Page 1).
The Novell stamp of approval will give marketing clout to an
operating system that many users already see as a robust,
industrial strength environment well-suited for
commerical applications.
"Linux is far superior to any Unix out there," said Mark
Horton, of Mark Horton Associates, a system-administration
consulting firm in Decatur, Ga.
"The installation is far superior to SCO [Unix] and it is
more reliable than Solaris 2.3. It is a full-blown system
that comes with development tools, TCP/IP networking, and
X Windows," Horton added. "And you get it for nothing."
Like many Linux users, Horton downloaded Linux from the
Internet. Others buy it through the four or five distributors
in the United States that sell it, primarily on CD ROM, for
$15 to $50.
According to users and developers, Linux's other benefits
include internals that are well-documented and under the GNU
Publish License, and source code that is always available -
unlike Unix.
"Everyone talks about Unix being open but it really isn't,"
said JHoel Goldberger, president of InfoMagic Inc., a Princeton,
N.J., distributor of Linux. "Its source code isn't always
available at a resonable cose. Linux is more attractive to
commercial users who want some sense that people are going to
respond to their needs."
Horton agreed. "When was the last time you could talk to the
person who developed the operating system at SCO or Sun?
I E-mail Linux and he responds."
Linus is Linux Torvalds, the Finnish programmer who developed
the Linux kernel. Over the past two years, Torvalds and
dozens of volunteer programmers from around the world have
added to Linux over the Internet. Its utilities come from
the GNU project at the Free Software Foundation, in Cambridge,
Mass., said Bob Young, editor of New York Unix, a newsletter in
New York and former publisher of The Linux Journal, in Seattle.
Bug fixes are also available via the Internet. "I know
commercial customers want a vendor they can call," like Novell,
said Horton. "I would personally rather post to the [Internet]
and get 10 to 12 answers in 10 minutes."
Linux runs on PCs based on either the ISA or EISA bus and
386-or-higher processors. According to The Linux Journal,
the average system comprises 8M bytes or RAM and 300M bytes
to 1G byte of disk storage.
Unix applications can be run on it, an am emulator for running
MS-DOS applications is available via a File Transfer Protocol
site, as is all Linux software. Volunteer programmers are
developing an interface to run Windows applications using the
X Window System, which comes bundled with it.
Novell's version reportedly runs Windows and NetWare applications
as well, sources said.
---------------------------------------------------------------end
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From: max...@ucsee.EECS.Berkeley.EDU (Maxim Spivak)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Linux in PC Week again (May 9th issue)
Date: 11 May 1994 16:04:48 GMT
Organization: University of California Society of Electrical Engineers
Lines: 73
Message-ID: <2qqvn0$krr@agate.berkeley.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ucsee.eecs.berkeley.edu
It seems that Linux is beginning to make weekly appearances in PC Week.
Here's an article from the System Software section dated May 9th.
======================================================================
Linux freeware poised to make commercial step
by Anne Knowles
Novell Inc.'s possible use of Linux in a future desktop offering could
give the Unixlike oprating system, which has spent the bulk of its
existence as freeware on the Internet, the endorsement it needs to make a
splash in the commercial world.
So say users and distributors of Linux, the POSIX-compliant PC
operating system that is available under a GNU Public License. Novell, of
Provo, Utah, is reportedly using Linux to develop a graphical, 32-bit
desktop operating system that can run DOS, Windows, NetWare, and Unix
applications (PC Weeks, April 25, Page 1).
The Novell stamp of approval will give marketing clout to an operating
system that many users already see as a robust, industrial-strength
environment well-suited for commercial applications.
"Linux is far superior to any Unix out there," said Mark Horton, of
Mark Horton Associates, a system-administration consulting firm in
Decatur, Ga.
"The installation is far superior to SCO [Unix] and it is more reliable
than Solaris 2.3. It is a full-blown system that comes with development
tools, TCP/IP networking, and X Windows," Horton added. "And you get it
for nothing."
Like many Linux users, Horton downloaded Linux from the Internet.
Others but it through the four or five distributors in the United States
that sell it, primarily on CD ROM, for $15 to $50.
According to users and developers, Linux's other benefits include
internals that are well-documented and under the GNU Public License, and
source code that is always available--unlike Unix.
"Everyone talks about Unix being more open but it really isn't," said
Joel Goldberger, president of InfoMagic Inc., a Princeton, NJ.,
distributor of Linux. "Its source code isn't always available at a
resonable cost. Linux is more attractive to commercial users who want
some sense that people are going to respond to their needs.
Horton agreed. "When was the last time you could talk to the person who
developed the operationg system at SCO or Sun? I E-mail Linus and he
responds."
Linus is Linus Torvalds, the Finnish programmer who developed the Linux
kernel. Over the past two years, Torvalds and dozens of volunteer
programmers from around the world have added to Linux over the Internet.
Its utilities come from the GNU project at the Free Software Foundation,
in Cambridge, Mass., said Bob Young, editor of New Your Unix, a
newsletter in New Your and former publisher of The Linux Journal, in
Seattle.
Big fixes are also available via the Internet. "I know commercial
customers want a vendor they can call," like Novell, said Horton. "I
would personally rather post to the [Internet] and get 10 to 12 answers
in 10 minutes." [An exaggeration IMO --Max Spivak]
Linux runs on PCs based on either the ISA or EISA but and 386-or-higher
processors. According to The Linux Journal, the average system comprises
8M butes of RAM and 300M bytes to 1G byte of disk storage.
Unix applications can be run on it, and an emulator for the running
MS-DOS applications is available via a File Transfer Protocol site, as is
all Linux software. Volunteer programmers are developing an interface to
run Windows applications using the X Window System, which comes bundled
with it. Novel's version reportedly runs Windows and NetWare applications
as well, sources said.
==========================================================================
Seems like PC Week _really_ likes Linux, esp. since they use it internally.
Anyways--enjoy.
Max
--
**************************************************************************
Maxim Spivak | #include <GoBears.h>
University of California, Berkeley | #include <StdDisclaimer.h>
max...@ucsee.berkeley.edu | #include ".signature"
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From: dil...@apollo.west.oic.com (Matthew Dillon)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Linux in PC Week again (May 9th issue)
Date: 11 May 1994 15:50:41 -0700
Organization: Obvious Implementations Corp
Lines: 34
Distribution: world
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In article <2qqvn0$...@agate.berkeley.edu> max...@ucsee.EECS.Berkeley.EDU
(Maxim Spivak) writes:
:It seems that Linux is beginning to make weekly appearances in PC Week.
:Here's an article from the System Software section dated May 9th.
:
:======================================================================
: Linux freeware poised to make commercial step
:
:by Anne Knowles
:
: Novell Inc.'s possible use of Linux in a future desktop offering could
:...
:--
:**************************************************************************
:Maxim Spivak | #include <GoBears.h>
:University of California, Berkeley | #include <StdDisclaimer.h>
:max...@ucsee.berkeley.edu | #include ".signature"
Thanks for posting that! I tend to agree... Novel can add a lot
of clout to Linux. Even disregarding any software Novel writes itself,
a commitment from Novel would have the effect of getting commercial
software vendors more of an incentive to develop for it, and getting
commercial hardware vendors more of an incentive to develop linux
drivers for their boards.
-Matt
--
Matthew Dillon dil...@apollo.west.oic.com
1005 Apollo Way
Incline Village, NV. 89451 ham: KC6LVW (no mail drop)
USA Sandel-Avery Engineering (702)831-8000
[always include a portion of the original email in any response!]
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From: i...@boulder.parcplace.com (Warner Losh)
Subject: Re: Linux in PC Week again (May 9th issue)
Message-ID: <CppInJ.MsF@boulder.parcplace.com>
Sender: n...@boulder.parcplace.com
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Date: Thu, 12 May 1994 20:38:06 GMT
Lines: 18
In article <2qqvn0$...@agate.berkeley.edu>
max...@ucsee.EECS.Berkeley.EDU (Maxim Spivak) writes:
> Big fixes are also available via the Internet. "I know commercial
>customers want a vendor they can call," like Novell, said Horton. "I
>would personally rather post to the [Internet] and get 10 to 12 answers
>in 10 minutes."
And people wonder why there is a problem with people posting questions
that are FAQ's in the newsgroups.
Sigh.
Warner
--
Warner Losh i...@boulder.parcplace.COM ParcPlace Boulder
"... but I can't promote you to "Prima Donna" unless you demonstrate a few
more serious personality disorders"
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news.cs.indiana.edu!jesc...@cs.indiana.edu
From: "Eric Jeschke" <jesc...@cs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: Linux in PC Week again (May 9th issue)
Message-ID: <1994May14.154731.29192@news.cs.indiana.edu>
Organization: Computer Science, Indiana University
References: <2qqvn0$krr@agate.berkeley.edu> <2r2ljh$fa7@crl2.crl.com>
Date: Sat, 14 May 1994 15:47:28 -0500
Lines: 10
There is a very indirect reference to Linux in PC Mag (May 31).
In Bill Machrone's column he refers to the WWW server set up by
PC Week (which used Linux for the server, apparently).
Anyway, in reference to Mosaic/Web he says "virtually every component
is available as freeware, including a public-domain version of Unix".
I'm almost certain he is referring to Linux.
--
Eric Jeschke | Indiana University
jesc...@cs.indiana.edu | Computer Science Department
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From: m...@cs.cornell.edu (Matt Welsh)
Subject: Re: Linux in PC Week again (May 9th issue)
Message-ID: <1994May14.220238.26443@cs.cornell.edu>
Organization: Cornell CS Robotics and Vision Laboratory, Ithaca, NY 14850
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<1994May14.154731.29192@news.cs.indiana.edu>
Date: Sat, 14 May 1994 22:02:38 GMT
Lines: 11
In article <1994May14.154731.29...@news.cs.indiana.edu> "Eric Jeschke"
<jesc...@cs.indiana.edu> writes:
>There is a very indirect reference to Linux in PC Mag (May 31).
>In Bill Machrone's column he refers to the WWW server set up by
>PC Week (which used Linux for the server, apparently).
>Anyway, in reference to Mosaic/Web he says "virtually every component
>is available as freeware, including a public-domain version of Unix".
>I'm almost certain he is referring to Linux.
If so, he's dead wrong about the "public domain" part.
mdw
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From: mah...@crl.com (Mark A. Horton)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Linux in PC Week again (May 9th issue)
Date: 14 May 1994 07:09:35 -0700
Organization: CRL Dialup Internet Access (415) 705-6060 [login: guest]
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Excuse me, please.
Warner Losh (i...@boulder.parcplace.com) wrote:
: In article <2qqvn0$...@agate.berkeley.edu>
: max...@ucsee.EECS.Berkeley.EDU (Maxim Spivak) writes:
: > Big fixes are also available via the Internet. "I know commercial
: >customers want a vendor they can call," like Novell, said Horton. "I
: >would personally rather post to the [Internet] and get 10 to 12 answers
: >in 10 minutes."
: And people wonder why there is a problem with people posting questions
: that are FAQ's in the newsgroups.
: Sigh.
: Warner
: --
: Warner Losh i...@boulder.parcplace.COM ParcPlace Boulder
: "... but I can't promote you to "Prima Donna" unless you demonstrate a few
: more serious personality disorders"
Let's not believe everything that PC-Week puts quotes around as what was
actually said.... for instance, your statement could be quoted as:
"there is a problem with people posting questions ... in the
newsgroups."
- or even -
"And people wonder why there ... are FAQ's [sic] in the
newsgroups."
I won't start a debate on "journalistic license" here... just my thoughts.
-- Mark
--
Mark A. Horton ka4ybr m...@ka4ybr.atl.ga.us m...@ka4ybr.com
P.O.Box 747 Decatur GA US 30031-0747 ICBM: 33 45 N / 084 17 W
+1.404.371.0291 Cruise: 33 45 31 N / 084 16 59 W
"We may note that, for the purposes of these experiments, the symbol
"=" has the meaning "may be confused with."
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From: mah...@crl.com (Mark A. Horton)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Linux in PC Week again (May 9th issue)
Date: 14 May 1994 07:01:21 -0700
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AAUURRRGGGHHHHH!!!!!
PC-Leak (er... PC-Week) rides again! Shocking headlines!
Daring Exposes [pun intended]! Film at eleven!)
I gotta quit talking to interviewers.... :(
A few corrections follow:
Maxim Spivak (max...@ucsee.EECS.Berkeley.EDU) wrote:
: It seems that Linux is beginning to make weekly appearances in PC Week.
: Here's an article from the System Software section dated May 9th.
: ======================================================================
: Linux freeware poised to make commercial step
: by Anne Knowles
: Novell Inc.'s possible use of Linux in a future desktop offering could
: give the Unixlike oprating system, which has spent the bulk of its
: existence as freeware on the Internet, the endorsement it needs to make a
: splash in the commercial world.
: So say users and distributors of Linux, the POSIX-compliant PC
: operating system that is available under a GNU Public License. Novell, of
: Provo, Utah, is reportedly using Linux to develop a graphical, 32-bit
: desktop operating system that can run DOS, Windows, NetWare, and Unix
: applications (PC Weeks, April 25, Page 1).
: The Novell stamp of approval will give marketing clout to an operating
: system that many users already see as a robust, industrial-strength
: environment well-suited for commercial applications.
: "Linux is far superior to any Unix out there," said Mark Horton, of
: Mark Horton Associates, a system-administration consulting firm in
: Decatur, Ga.
WRONG. I like Linux, but the quote was : "In many ways, Linux is
superior to many of the commercial Unix versions in the features and
compatibilities it offers, particularly POSIX compliance."
: "The installation is far superior to SCO [Unix] and it is more reliable
: than Solaris 2.3. It is a full-blown system that comes with development
: tools, TCP/IP networking, and X Windows," Horton added. "And you get it
: for nothing."
WRONG. "The Slackware distribution of Linux is, in my opinion,
easier than even a SCO installation... an important item for new users."
RIGHT! "More reliable than Solaris 2.3." Anyone got a clue as to
why adding Windows 3.1 like the install says using the WABI tools just
...hangs.... resulting in a dead system and eventual reboot?
RIGHT! "It is a full-blown system that comes with development
tools, TCP/IP networking, and X Windows [and uucp and others]." Anyone
wanna argue here?
"And you get it for nothing."
BUT! You have to spend the time dowloading and installing and
researching. So after an initial install one should probably invest
in one of the CD releases to have the source and libraries.
: Like many Linux users, Horton downloaded Linux from the Internet.
: Others but it through the four or five distributors in the United States
: that sell it, primarily on CD ROM, for $15 to $50.
: According to users and developers, Linux's other benefits include
: internals that are well-documented and under the GNU Public License, and
: source code that is always available--unlike Unix.
: "Everyone talks about Unix being more open but it really isn't," said
: Joel Goldberger, president of InfoMagic Inc., a Princeton, NJ.,
: distributor of Linux. "Its source code isn't always available at a
: resonable cost. Linux is more attractive to commercial users who want
: some sense that people are going to respond to their needs.
: Horton agreed. "When was the last time you could talk to the person who
: developed the operationg system at SCO or Sun? I E-mail Linus and he
: responds."
Sorta Right! The quote was "I can email the person(s) who developed
a particular piece of the sytem , even Linus as busy as he is, and get
a response." I believe I also mentioned something about this not relieving
the user of the responsibility of doing their own problem determination
so as to not bother the developers with trivial questions.
: Linus is Linus Torvalds, the Finnish programmer who developed the Linux
: kernel. Over the past two years, Torvalds and dozens of volunteer
: programmers from around the world have added to Linux over the Internet.
: Its utilities come from the GNU project at the Free Software Foundation,
: in Cambridge, Mass., said Bob Young, editor of New Your Unix, a
: newsletter in New Your and former publisher of The Linux Journal, in
: Seattle.
: Big fixes are also available via the Internet. "I know commercial
: customers want a vendor they can call," like Novell, said Horton. "I
: would personally rather post to the [Internet] and get 10 to 12 answers
: in 10 minutes." [An exaggeration IMO --Max Spivak]
(I agree, Max... another misquote :( !) What I said was that
rather than spending hours on hold with a vendor, it's nice to be able to
search the net for solutions or persons having similar problems and emailing
them for solutions or if you are really stuck, post your question to the net
and you'll probably receive several responses within 20 minutes to a couple
hours, due to the world-wide nature of the net. All responses may not be
right, however, and it's incumbent upon the individual to determine the
applicability.
BTW: what is a "Big Fix"??? a new kernel release? Maybe we need
a glossary... or at least a PC-Week translation table. :) I believe I
was referring to programmings' insectoid relations here...
[ mount -r -t raving.human /dev/keyboard /soapbox ]
We all complain about the clutter and noise in the Linux groups, and
many are quick to respond to newbie questions with a scorching "RTFM", or
a chilly "It's IN THE FAQ!" or a "Go read the HOWTOs!" But given the
(supposedly) "give us your teeming masses" approach of Linux, perhaps we
should temper such outbursts.... Take a look in the other groups (comp.os.???)
help and admin groups and compare the "quality" of questions there... and
these are from "commercial-grade" UNIX systems with shelves of documentation.
[ umount /soapbox ]
: Linux runs on PCs based on either the ISA or EISA but and 386-or-higher
: processors. According to The Linux Journal, the average system comprises
: 8M butes of RAM and 300M bytes to 1G byte of disk storage.
: Unix applications can be run on it, and an emulator for the running
: MS-DOS applications is available via a File Transfer Protocol site, as is
: all Linux software. Volunteer programmers are developing an interface to
: run Windows applications using the X Window System, which comes bundled
: with it. Novel's version reportedly runs Windows and NetWare applications
: as well, sources said.
: ==========================================================================
: Seems like PC Week _really_ likes Linux, esp. since they use it internally.
: Anyways--enjoy.
: Max
: --
: **************************************************************************
: Maxim Spivak | #include <GoBears.h>
: University of California, Berkeley | #include <StdDisclaimer.h>
: max...@ucsee.berkeley.edu | #include ".signature"
Anyway, that's my attempt to clear up some misquotations here... anyone got
the address of the letters-to-the-editor for this rag? They stopped my
subscription when I left the mainframe world 4 years ago to move to the
world of networked Unix systems and won't restart it since I don't have
enough direct purchasing decision-making power (never mind all the clients I
make recommendation to!) Go figure... :(
-- Mark
--
"It's 1994! Do you know how long YOUR Linux has been running?"
--
Mark A. Horton ka4ybr m...@ka4ybr.atl.ga.us m...@ka4ybr.com
P.O.Box 747 Decatur GA US 30031-0747 ICBM: 33 45 N / 084 17 W
+1.404.371.0291 Cruise: 33 45 31 N / 084 16 59 W
"We may note that, for the purposes of these experiments, the symbol
"=" has the meaning "may be confused with."