Path: g2news1.google.com!news2.google.com!Xl.tags.giganews.com! border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local2.nntp.dca.giganews.com! nntp.mozilla.org!news.mozilla.org.POSTED!not-for-mail NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 10:49:24 -0500 Return-Path: <andreas....@gmail.com> X-Original-To: dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org Delivered-To: dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mozilla.org Authentication-Results: notorious.mozilla.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass header...@gmail.com Received-SPF: pass (gmail.com ... _spf.google.com: 209.85.212.50 is authorized to use 'andreas....@gmail.com' in 'mfrom' identity (mechanism 'ip4:209.85.128.0/17' matched)) receiver=notorious.mozilla.org; identity=mailfrom; envelope-from="andreas....@gmail.com"; helo=mail-vw0-f50.google.com; client-ip=209.85.212.50 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=sender:from:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:subject:date :message-id:to:mime-version:x-mailer; bh=me7JwkERhDCzcBJjeZxqcDQgIechbg4TseY75qTcHgI=; b=Ks3JtOTMt9yuIXS9rogJoo/rm8DHh3/jwpW0FTwlZKxGhIhR+QR6VnpwH41CRt6yq2 FdelVk+o5Ak1tOzriDGEkNhjdLNPRvJbTDs9lNxYk6Yqa2Zp5toGSyZ2CMCpSKqzVNTv OWXxCwh7Y+OL2j1vUFA5OiNhXpUxFrwm4mtHw= Sender: Andreas Gal <andreas....@gmail.com> From: Andreas Gal <g...@mozilla.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Booting to the Web Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 08:49:17 -0700 To: dev-platform <dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) X-BeenThere: dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "The Mozilla platform \(XULRunner\)" <dev-platform.lists.mozilla.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.mozilla.org/options/dev-platform>, <mailto:dev-platform-requ...@lists.mozilla.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Post: <mailto:dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org> List-Help: <mailto:dev-platform-requ...@lists.mozilla.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-platform>, <mailto:dev-platform-requ...@lists.mozilla.org?subject=subscribe> Newsgroups: mozilla.dev.platform Message-ID: <mailman.3791.1311608964.4544.dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org> Lines: 44 X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.245.208.166 X-AuthenticatedUsername: NoAuthUser X-Trace: sv3-b8D1z8lFR6x4YZeEt7QU3gntJ8/f+tVimCB1DHknPLQQ3Q+uqtMqKWXI0iQgBK/ WVOBg0SDBH7p9HEM! RMp2xk9ncg79ZFMnrv2WdkORUby1rcKABhrdw2cCjJWFCKtEKi6MgBdte9XU0CWBbyKlCPXyeIff! SwrWAJ+JCEzmyC9lrbp/erfXls6/V2lzgw== X-Complaints-To: ab...@mozilla.org X-DMCA-Complaints-To: ab...@mozilla.org X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.40 X-Original-Bytes: 5046 Mozilla believes that the web can displace proprietary, single-vendor = stacks for application development. To make open web technologies a = better basis for future applications on mobile and desktop alike, we = need to keep pushing the envelope of the web to include --- and in = places exceed --- the capabilities of the competing stacks in question. We also need a hill to take, in order to scope and focus our efforts. = Recently we saw the pdf.js [http://github.com/andreasgal/pdf.js/] = project expose small gaps that needed filling in order for "HTML5" to be = a superset of PDF. We want to take a bigger step now, and find the gaps = that keep web developers from being able to build apps that are --- in = every way --- the equals of native apps built for the iPhone, Android, = and WP7. To that end, we propose a project we=92re calling "Boot to Gecko" = [http://wiki.mozilla.org/B2G] (B2G) to pursue the goal of building a = complete, standalone operating system for the open web. It=92s going to = require work in a number of areas. * New web APIs: build prototype APIs for exposing device and OS = capabilities to content (Telephony, SMS, Camera, USB, Bluetooth, NFC, = etc.) * Privilege model: making sure that these new capabilities are safely = exposed to pages and applications * Booting: prototype a low-level substrate for an Android-compatible = device; * Applications: choose and port or build apps to prove out and = prioritize the power of the system. We will do this work in the open, we will release the source = [http://github.com/andreasgal/B2G] in real-time, we will take all = successful additions to an appropriate standards group, and we will = track changes that come out of that process. We aren't trying to have = these native-grade apps just run on Firefox, we're trying to have them = run on the web. This project is in its infancy; some pieces of it are only captured in = our heads today, others aren=92t fully explored. We=92re talking about = it now because we want expertise from all over Mozilla -- and from = people who aren=92t yet part of Mozilla -- to inform and build the = project we=92re outlining here. brendan, cjones, gal, shaver=
Path: g2news2.google.com!postnews.google.com!h4g2000vbw.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail From: Ian Bicking <ianbick...@gmail.com> Newsgroups: mozilla.dev.platform Subject: Re: Booting to the Web Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 09:56:28 -0700 (PDT) Organization: http://groups.google.com Lines: 2 Message-ID: <bab72aab-23df-437f-bf87-956f8ef0e94a@h4g2000vbw.googlegroups.com> References: <mailman.3791.1311608964.4544.dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: 75.72.200.47 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Trace: posting.google.com 1311613895 28363 127.0.0.1 (25 Jul 2011 17:11:35 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 17:11:35 +0000 (UTC) Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: h4g2000vbw.googlegroups.com; posting-host=75.72.200.47; posting-account=LcGPLAoAAABb7auH6w07Dg2Dh8-Rq9H2 User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:8.0a1) Gecko/20110720 Firefox/8.0a1,gzip(gfe) Given this, thoughts about, or reactions, or possible work with to Webian OS? (http://webian.org/ - built on Chromeless)
Path: g2news1.google.com!postnews.google.com!m3g2000pre.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail From: Ian McKellar <ian.mckel...@rd.io> Newsgroups: mozilla.dev.platform Subject: Re: Booting to the Web Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 10:19:15 -0700 (PDT) Organization: http://groups.google.com Lines: 15 Message-ID: <c0fbc317-91f4-4735-a60b-161e4e64d29b@m3g2000pre.googlegroups.com> References: <mailman.3791.1311608964.4544.dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: 98.210.10.105 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: posting.google.com 1311614355 911 127.0.0.1 (25 Jul 2011 17:19:15 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 17:19:15 +0000 (UTC) Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: m3g2000pre.googlegroups.com; posting-host=98.210.10.105; posting-account=SWtDBAoAAACTO4r0U6AIQNynoSF7dLqX User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_7) AppleWebKit/534.30 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/12.0.742.112 Safari/534.30,gzip(gfe) On Jul 25, 8:49=A0am, Andreas Gal <g...@mozilla.com> wrote: > * New web APIs: build prototype APIs for exposing device and OS capabilit= ies to content (Telephony, SMS, Camera, USB, Bluetooth, NFC, etc.) Yay that's awesome! > * Booting: prototype a low-level substrate for an Android-compatible devi= ce; Why not boot to a more conventional Linux stack? Android brings a lot of baggage that's useful for building a mobile phone running J*va apps but does less for bringing up a Gecko. Surely a straight-forward Linux w/ X would be a simpler, more open way to implement a Gecko-OS. Ian
Path: g2news2.google.com!news1.google.com!Xl.tags.giganews.com! border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local2.nntp.dca.giganews.com! nntp.mozilla.org!news.mozilla.org.POSTED!not-for-mail NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 12:22:17 -0500 Return-Path: <mike.sha...@gmail.com> X-Original-To: dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org Delivered-To: dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mozilla.org Authentication-Results: notorious.mozilla.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass header...@gmail.com Received-SPF: pass (gmail.com ... _spf.google.com: 209.85.213.50 is authorized to use 'mike.sha...@gmail.com' in 'mfrom' identity (mechanism 'ip4:209.85.128.0/17' matched)) receiver=notorious.mozilla.org; identity=mailfrom; envelope-from="mike.sha...@gmail.com"; helo=mail-yw0-f50.google.com; client-ip=209.85.213.50 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=KDlgWrcRWPLQmCsw0x5MogYyH8D5IF8djRJ+0AGnj1I=; b=DcqymsUERAjiSvu2f2N+2o2jnRXWHb55Xg8DmqqINL+mV5oZddmTLoprUf5xoDtXjD QPSDZV8SNl5O+Ft7DQ1ieZODoxXMOGVotzYt/iaPynKQL7rhPJh62mC+M8K0RFhUBtpX vCgwKyfjpoKXY32ba/9psf6p8YVDEWVaGYjrQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <bab72aab-23df-437f-bf87-956f8ef0e94a@h4g2000vbw.googlegroups.com> References: <mailman.3791.1311608964.4544.dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org> <bab72aab-23df-437f-bf87-956f8ef0e94a@h4g2000vbw.googlegroups.com> Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 13:22:10 -0400 Subject: Re: Booting to the Web From: Mike Shaver <mike.sha...@gmail.com> To: Ian Bicking <ianbick...@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org X-BeenThere: dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "The Mozilla platform \(XULRunner\)" <dev-platform.lists.mozilla.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.mozilla.org/options/dev-platform>, <mailto:dev-platform-requ...@lists.mozilla.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Post: <mailto:dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org> List-Help: <mailto:dev-platform-requ...@lists.mozilla.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-platform>, <mailto:dev-platform-requ...@lists.mozilla.org?subject=subscribe> Newsgroups: mozilla.dev.platform Message-ID: <mailman.3798.1311614536.4544.dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org> Lines: 14 X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.245.208.166 X-AuthenticatedUsername: NoAuthUser X-Trace: sv3-7z5O98W5K1gORtqmetsQsxt+ROsz1drFbTCgmiPbO3XQoXujnAvDpj9RUk29HdY8f5aUOhYUvpWequW! 3136VWJP0fz7QXfkK7tI2vKO6JPv9uzJrE5g56MT0eevnHC3xO4ERUbh32RvjHJsKjjRo0ETTGwM! AR5bUV4uptJJ/EPDlyOZ29Rz12xMQ0zB9Q== X-Complaints-To: ab...@mozilla.org X-DMCA-Complaints-To: ab...@mozilla.org X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.40 X-Original-Bytes: 3513 On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 12:56 PM, Ian Bicking <ianbick...@gmail.com> wrote: > Given this, thoughts about, or reactions, or possible work with to > Webian OS? (http://webian.org/ - built on Chromeless) As with ChromeOS and other such projects, we'll be looking all over the place for both inspiration and collaboration. We're really focused on the handheld/tablet/mobile experience for this work, and it looks like Webian is more aiming at the desktop. It will great if we're both successful! Webian's experiences in building APIs for system services seem like a great place to collaborate, too. Mike
Path: g2news2.google.com!news1.google.com!Xl.tags.giganews.com! border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local2.nntp.dca.giganews.com! nntp.mozilla.org!news.mozilla.org.POSTED! not-for-mail NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 12:28:32 -0500 Return-Path: <mike.sha...@gmail.com> X-Original-To: dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org Delivered-To: dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mozilla.org Authentication-Results: notorious.mozilla.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass header...@gmail.com Received-SPF: pass (gmail.com ... _spf.google.com: 209.85.160.178 is authorized to use 'mike.sha...@gmail.com' in 'mfrom' identity (mechanism 'ip4:209.85.128.0/17' matched)) receiver=notorious.mozilla.org; identity=mailfrom; envelope-from="mike.sha...@gmail.com"; helo=mail-gy0-f178.google.com; client-ip=209.85.160.178 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=vlNKQDjOW2956M1f7Vkc6yJOmWZ2bTmETeDeu2id2tU=; b=ULhERPikiqVWUSuSlpJGsEK77PK6QF6txxo9Zu0jHG0Z8vjY8WYa+DCJ9vgqwTKmH5 Iy0navoiIsWb4CaE6472qjvTQW4nqPxpUEFJVlAyMzB2c0aIXWjn9gXCfW0zLc4rY2uv dDmEhWz4Lm9VNAnsKKdfKH2eo51hJD8Z/nhTE= MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <c0fbc317-91f4-4735-a60b-161e4e64d29b@m3g2000pre.googlegroups.com> References: <mailman.3791.1311608964.4544.dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org> <c0fbc317-91f4-4735-a60b-161e4e64d29b@m3g2000pre.googlegroups.com> Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 13:27:30 -0400 Subject: Re: Booting to the Web From: Mike Shaver <mike.sha...@gmail.com> To: Ian McKellar <ian.mckel...@rd.io> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org X-BeenThere: dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "The Mozilla platform \(XULRunner\)" <dev-platform.lists.mozilla.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.mozilla.org/options/dev-platform>, <mailto:dev-platform-requ...@lists.mozilla.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Post: <mailto:dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org> List-Help: <mailto:dev-platform-requ...@lists.mozilla.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-platform>, <mailto:dev-platform-requ...@lists.mozilla.org?subject=subscribe> Newsgroups: mozilla.dev.platform Message-ID: <mailman.3800.1311614905.4544.dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org> Lines: 20 X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.245.208.166 X-AuthenticatedUsername: NoAuthUser X-Trace: sv3-cC8DLgu1DrWD/VE8ikL7ldIp2AVT/d715ntEAzP/gXfhk/ QkluY0EM98LzxyBfGj1NRowNNy5Le6BV0! x6DfAghUY6kzGV73CITTAEVPf2qk31PW9JFwtTWA4XNyPhIEWJKGEcXZeTNi3nMfYru4Pzi0ap7C! xPsL+psnnY53EzkjWe8whX8v0+MiMNAPeg== X-Complaints-To: ab...@mozilla.org X-DMCA-Complaints-To: ab...@mozilla.org X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.40 X-Original-Bytes: 3947 On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 1:19 PM, Ian McKellar <ian.mckel...@rd.io> wrote: > Why not boot to a more conventional Linux stack? Android brings a lot > of baggage that's useful for building a mobile phone running J*va apps > but does less for bringing up a Gecko. Surely a straight-forward Linux > w/ X would be a simpler, more open way to implement a Gecko-OS. We intend to use as little of Android as possible, in fact. Really, we want to use the kernel + drivers, plus libc and ancillary stuff. It's not likely that we'll use the Android Java-wrapped graphics APIs, for example. It's nice to start from something that's known to boot and have access to all the devices we want to expose. Maybe that's not the right direction, though, so if someone wants to explore another direction that'd be just fine. Our experiences with performance and hardware acceleration on X haven't been great, and it's a pretty heavyweight component to bring in. Are there good drivers for the hardware found in current phones and tablets? Mike
Path: g2news2.google.com!news2.google.com!Xl.tags.giganews.com! border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local2.nntp.dca.giganews.com! nntp.mozilla.org!news.mozilla.org.POSTED! not-for-mail NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 12:47:46 -0500 From: Fabrice =?iso-8859-1?b?RGVzcuk=?= <fabr...@mozilla.com> Subject: Re: Booting to the Web Newsgroups: mozilla.dev.platform References: <mailman.3791.1311608964.4544.dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org> <c0fbc317-91f4-4735-a60b-161e4e64d29b@m3g2000pre.googlegroups.com> <mailman.3800.1311614905.4544.dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org> User-Agent: Pan/0.133 (House of Butterflies) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <-O6dnWY54ovfMbDTnZ2dnUVZ_r-dnZ2d@mozilla.org> Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 12:47:46 -0500 Lines: 23 X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.245.220.240 X-AuthenticatedUsername: NoAuthUser X-Trace: sv3-JXjpwTcMMTFlnTbBh8CRtpZx7zPBzesayw2lN8762iRZ/zm16dv4JDoereVBtdaPca1aC5x3NHI+uck! dAyG7lijh5hAW1lupQvFdrIvkS6hUiSIPskT3ms9ywW7YSpF/ wAJRbCAvaejT124lcsV9zmKGHOb!ybQT1DlUX9X09Q== X-Complaints-To: abuse@mozilla.org X-DMCA-Complaints-To: ab...@mozilla.org X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.40 X-Original-Bytes: 2429 On Mon, 25 Jul 2011 13:27:30 -0400, Mike Shaver wrote: > We intend to use as little of Android as possible, in fact. Really, we > want to use the kernel + drivers, plus libc and ancillary stuff. It's > not likely that we'll use the Android Java-wrapped graphics APIs, for > example. It's nice to start from something that's known to boot and > have access to all the devices we want to expose. Maybe that's not the > right direction, though, so if someone wants to explore another > direction that'd be just fine. That's a great and ambitious goal, and in a shorter time frame I'm exploring a less disruptive option: Set fennec to run as your android homescreen, with the homescreen itself implemented as a web app, using a couple of additional APIs : - The openwebapps API (https://developer.mozilla.org/en/OpenWebApps/ The_JavaScript_API) - An API to list/launch native android apps (based a cleaned up version of http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/app-launcher/) With this we can get android users to transition to a web-based solution with not much risk : no need to change your ROM for instance. Fabrice
Path: g2news2.google.com!news2.google.com!Xl.tags.giganews.com! border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local2.nntp.dca.giganews.com! nntp.mozilla.org!news.mozilla.org.POSTED!not-for-mail NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 14:14:19 -0500 Return-Path: <hsivo...@iki.fi> X-Original-To: dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org Delivered-To: dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mozilla.org Received-SPF: pass (iki.fi: Sender is authorized by default to use 'hsivo...@iki.fi' in 'mfrom' identity (mechanism 'all' matched)) receiver=notorious.mozilla.org; identity=mailfrom; envelope-from="hsivo...@iki.fi"; helo=mail.fimug.fi; client-ip=84.239.253.203 Subject: Re: Booting to the Web From: Henri Sivonen <hsivo...@iki.fi> To: dev-platform <dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org> In-Reply-To: <1A3CAD3A-1133-447D-B5BC-6B32BE95F7BF@mozilla.com> References: <1A3CAD3A-1133-447D-B5BC-6B32BE95F7BF@mozilla.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 22:14:07 +0300 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.32.2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "The Mozilla platform \(XULRunner\)" <dev-platform.lists.mozilla.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.mozilla.org/options/dev-platform>, <mailto:dev-platform-requ...@lists.mozilla.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Post: <mailto:dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org> List-Help: <mailto:dev-platform-requ...@lists.mozilla.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-platform>, <mailto:dev-platform-requ...@lists.mozilla.org?subject=subscribe> Newsgroups: mozilla.dev.platform Message-ID: <mailman.3811.1311621259.4544.dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org> Lines: 19 X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.245.208.166 X-AuthenticatedUsername: NoAuthUser X-Trace: sv3-np6ydWZk9M/1KBXkmOO0GcU5a7SzhdhJvIcX1Yl0KD8PPJSYMkOfhGlzR7qUasStkP8M3SNNtbgglAw! 8tphpeueInRL15tgjBearw278stKDniqnawFx7BwUmQQrZcXL7013tPNWbc6I+ysEinm+NMugNZE! kMVn4zvczpPcaESYpDawXuDRRGNf3Ds7vg== X-Complaints-To: ab...@mozilla.org X-DMCA-Complaints-To: ab...@mozilla.org X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.40 X-Original-Bytes: 3067 On Mon, 2011-07-25 at 08:49 -0700, Andreas Gal wrote: > To that end, we propose a project we’re calling "Boot to Gecko" > [http://wiki.mozilla.org/B2G] (B2G) to pursue the goal of building a complete, > standalone operating system for the open web. I'm very happy and excited to see this. Awesome! Thank you! > * Booting: prototype a low-level substrate for an Android-compatible device; Just curious: Did you evaluate Meego kernel & Wayland in comparison to Android kernel & Android graphics? Does Android win on driver availability/quality alone or also on pure technical merit? What do webOS and Chrome OS use for graphics? Do they ship X or something that's not X, not Wayland and not the Android graphics layer? -- Henri Sivonen hsivo...@iki.fi http://hsivonen.iki.fi/
Path: g2news2.google.com!news1.google.com!Xl.tags.giganews.com! border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local2.nntp.dca.giganews.com! nntp.mozilla.org!news.mozilla.org.POSTED!not-for-mail NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 14:18:56 -0500 Return-Path: <mike.sha...@gmail.com> X-Original-To: dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org Delivered-To: dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mozilla.org Authentication-Results: notorious.mozilla.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass header...@gmail.com Received-SPF: pass (gmail.com ... _spf.google.com: 209.85.218.50 is authorized to use 'mike.sha...@gmail.com' in 'mfrom' identity (mechanism 'ip4:209.85.128.0/17' matched)) receiver=notorious.mozilla.org; identity=mailfrom; envelope-from="mike.sha...@gmail.com"; helo=mail-yi0-f50.google.com; client-ip=209.85.218.50 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=5d5ZKbkG/jcli12psWM5xj5LCNsvtIsy9IS90lWTxCE=; b=PM7nEhhTi8zPWtSffjYnGj3t9uuQIJ2geChFL1hTMCTqJCppgXcmt3wxqvuid8KMrM 0eri2/lamG8bvzmSnfZwa705VzqnyT356V7bN57SUF2Bb3+26QRnadpEvu05JYzYqXvB hMqhW5vcmi7bPD0RrZLKZ3S7d+lcxU9uFqoWw= MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <1311621247.2377.8.camel@shuttle> References: <1A3CAD3A-1133-447D-B5BC-6B32BE95F7BF@mozilla.com> <1311621247.2377.8.camel@shuttle> Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 15:18:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Booting to the Web From: Mike Shaver <mike.sha...@gmail.com> To: Henri Sivonen <hsivo...@iki.fi> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: dev-platform <dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org> X-BeenThere: dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "The Mozilla platform \(XULRunner\)" <dev-platform.lists.mozilla.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.mozilla.org/options/dev-platform>, <mailto:dev-platform-requ...@lists.mozilla.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Post: <mailto:dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org> List-Help: <mailto:dev-platform-requ...@lists.mozilla.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-platform>, <mailto:dev-platform-requ...@lists.mozilla.org?subject=subscribe> Newsgroups: mozilla.dev.platform Message-ID: <mailman.3814.1311621536.4544.dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org> Lines: 25 X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.245.208.166 X-AuthenticatedUsername: NoAuthUser X-Trace: sv3-xW0neuhsXQhYdLYKxw+qDJjPi3+IorlwMwT7tQagSC+XX9+tp9DmvoBtCdEwR1QDjjB7k4M8PhXyo+E! r+w95GxzTdkc0tbTQN9EBO5wKWfgPjl+nuLV+SHDAnFbwPrYYi89RO0fqB0PUoWkmbU+eY21a9wU! BaL8xQpiwM6GekkEr2qpchP1/uYD/OumAw== X-Complaints-To: ab...@mozilla.org X-DMCA-Complaints-To: ab...@mozilla.org X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.40 X-Original-Bytes: 4000 On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 3:14 PM, Henri Sivonen <hsivo...@iki.fi> wrote: > Just curious: Did you evaluate Meego kernel & Wayland in comparison to > Android kernel & Android graphics? Does Android win on driver > availability/quality alone or also on pure technical merit? We'll evaluate them, but for right now we want to take advantage of the work we've already done (and are doing) on Android, and the ease of getting devices that are known to work. Specifically, we're looking at Tegra 2 devices because they have hardware acceleration of open audio/video formats, and they match what we've got automated testing running on. > What do webOS and Chrome OS use for graphics? I'm not sure -- I don't believe that the graphics stack for ChromeOS is open, but I might just have missed it browsing the code. No idea about WebOS either. If people want to help identify other good OS/device combinations, though, that would be welcome. For now we're going to be doing just enough work to get to booting to Gecko and then focus higher up the stack to write the system services (dialer, camera app, etc.) as locally-cached web applications. Mike
Path: g2news1.google.com!news2.google.com!Xl.tags.giganews.com! border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local2.nntp.dca.giganews.com! nntp.mozilla.org!news.mozilla.org.POSTED!not-for-mail NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 16:36:30 -0500 Return-Path: <ro...@berjon.com> X-Original-To: dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org Delivered-To: dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mozilla.org Received-SPF: none (berjon.com: No applicable sender policy available) receiver=notorious.mozilla.org; identity=mailfrom; envelope-from="ro...@berjon.com"; helo=poing.nachbaur.com; client-ip=78.46.41.34 Subject: Re: Booting to the Web Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 From: Robin Berjon <ro...@berjon.com> In-Reply-To: <-O6dnWY54ovfMbDTnZ2dnUVZ_r-dnZ2d@mozilla.org> Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 23:36:21 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable References: <mailman.3791.1311608964.4544.dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org> <c0fbc317-91f4-4735-a60b-161e4e64d29b@m3g2000pre.googlegroups.com> <mailman.3800.1311614905.4544.dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org> <-O6dnWY54ovfMbDTnZ2dnUVZ_r-dnZ2d@mozilla.org> To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Fabrice_Desr=E9?= <fabr...@mozilla.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) X-PMX-Version: 5.6.1.2065439, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2011.7.25.212115 Cc: dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org X-BeenThere: dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "The Mozilla platform \(XULRunner\)" <dev-platform.lists.mozilla.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.mozilla.org/options/dev-platform>, <mailto:dev-platform-requ...@lists.mozilla.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Post: <mailto:dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org> List-Help: <mailto:dev-platform-requ...@lists.mozilla.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-platform>, <mailto:dev-platform-requ...@lists.mozilla.org?subject=subscribe> Newsgroups: mozilla.dev.platform Message-ID: <mailman.3829.1311629790.4544.dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org> Lines: 43 X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.245.208.166 X-AuthenticatedUsername: NoAuthUser X-Trace: sv3-BOHCf7eTcb/BmtRNzUw5NsJN8q6XSOSIOvOt/qZdFzpIoj4wCwsBqUfkZQbHg7Pr0aS943UxRAgavBb! 8NZ4nqr63hm5ga4lGMkn3yxQbVZ2VYO0HQ//azVOJvRKyM4Gf7MuI5RqviNl8QKLIJ419Wi1JQKq! aRkaJtyTF+VtA/weV7VVWjLPrzlAk2rtaQ== X-Complaints-To: ab...@mozilla.org X-DMCA-Complaints-To: ab...@mozilla.org X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.40 X-Original-Bytes: 4844 Hi Fabrice, On Jul 25, 2011, at 19:47 , Fabrice Desr=E9 wrote: > - An API to list/launch native android apps (based a cleaned up = version=20 > of http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/app-launcher/) I really don't think that using the App Launcher draft as any manner or = form of starting point is a good idea. The DAP group has it in its CVS = because it is inherited from the APIs that were submitted to it in the = beginning, but it's since been abandoned and IMHO for very good reason. = I don't think that a cleaned up version will get you anywhere = interesting, you need a completely different design. The problem with the App Launcher API is that there is pretty much no = way of making it safe for Web use without making it useless. At the more = powerful end of this spectrum you can enumerate installed executables = (how that works is in itself an issue, not to mention how you filter it = for privacy) and can then run them. I don't think that there is any kind = of user interface that will make that functionality safe to run from the = Web. At the other end of the spectrum you can have methods like "launch = the music player with this". These are typically best served by media = types and URI schemes. Of course you could do something like that if the goal were not to make = the APIs in B2G not be Web-safe. But I don't see the value in this, and = from reading between the lines I think that the idea is that all of the = B2G stack be built with Web APIs. Any monkey with enough time can wrap = every lib on the system with js-ctypes but I don't see much value in = that. What's hard (and interesting) is to make it work for the Web. = That's why DAP dropped App Launcher in favour of an Intents/Introducer = approach. That's not to say that I don't see value in your proposal of having a = runtime that can be used on top of an OS rather than requiring a = complete replacement. I could well be missing something but I see no = reason why the project couldn't have a minimal OS that's just enough to = launch the runtime, which in turn could also run elsewhere. But either = way there's a bit of code to write before such refinements :) --=20 Robin Berjon - http://berjon.com/ - @robinberjon
Path: g2news1.google.com!news1.google.com!Xl.tags.giganews.com! border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local2.nntp.dca.giganews.com! nntp.mozilla.org!news.mozilla.org.POSTED!not-for-mail NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 16:46:57 -0500 Return-Path: <mike.sha...@gmail.com> X-Original-To: dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org Delivered-To: dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mozilla.org Authentication-Results: notorious.mozilla.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass header...@gmail.com Received-SPF: pass (gmail.com ... _spf.google.com: 209.85.160.178 is authorized to use 'mike.sha...@gmail.com' in 'mfrom' identity (mechanism 'ip4:209.85.128.0/17' matched)) receiver=notorious.mozilla.org; identity=mailfrom; envelope-from="mike.sha...@gmail.com"; helo=mail-gy0-f178.google.com; client-ip=209.85.160.178 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=wDcghzkZuCxFpvVaXc9QVNpR0apcmrPwNC4ffHgrLVM=; b=V5p9fjydYlSiPSI9u1pOAnkURh95CxaOhX2tOa3a0Ri2whVQFIfkOYQysZbB5b8Vmj fuJOyn1Dt7uyNDlOm0t/WDYbJZ5O6dM6Fd3fO030S8o9aiuqk9oa6pcGcXhqqpztkxFE tv+QIkVrU0T2B9oz4tNFcMTpCvJYxNfCxFXXw= MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4F8529CB-18A1-4A63-8021-B68C9ACDEA7F@berjon.com> References: <mailman.3791.1311608964.4544.dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org> <c0fbc317-91f4-4735-a60b-161e4e64d29b@m3g2000pre.googlegroups.com> <mailman.3800.1311614905.4544.dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org> <-O6dnWY54ovfMbDTnZ2dnUVZ_r-dnZ2d@mozilla.org> <4F8529CB-18A1-4A63-8021-B68C9ACDEA7F@berjon.com> Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 17:46:51 -0400 Subject: Re: Booting to the Web From: Mike Shaver <mike.sha...@gmail.com> To: Robin Berjon <ro...@berjon.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fabrice_Desr=E9?= <fabr...@mozilla.com>, dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org X-BeenThere: dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "The Mozilla platform \(XULRunner\)" <dev-platform.lists.mozilla.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.mozilla.org/options/dev-platform>, <mailto:dev-platform-requ...@lists.mozilla.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Post: <mailto:dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org> List-Help: <mailto:dev-platform-requ...@lists.mozilla.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-platform>, <mailto:dev-platform-requ...@lists.mozilla.org?subject=subscribe> Newsgroups: mozilla.dev.platform Message-ID: <mailman.3832.1311630417.4544.dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org> Lines: 30 X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.245.208.166 X-AuthenticatedUsername: NoAuthUser X-Trace: sv3-ro46LUXAQdNt5SwC8Ea/vQwcuc7VH34SLKuDSB9cS3vEtrvWJWimin4w2jRpuySFzJVyZ1f5JfIYgWq! /DuBRVkROM9M0Ntk28hruiL3qCgiDivEegP29Q76LrJ6dlglx4mO4AImvmAu46DwsE79EpHk8/Bi! kj9IW3HRuGkrjgieXSa2Iokow06V503d5A== X-Complaints-To: ab...@mozilla.org X-DMCA-Complaints-To: ab...@mozilla.org X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.40 X-Original-Bytes: 4504 On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 5:36 PM, Robin Berjon <ro...@berjon.com> wrote: > Hi Fabrice, > > On Jul 25, 2011, at 19:47 , Fabrice Desr=E9 wrote: >> - An API to list/launch native android apps (based a cleaned up version >> of http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/app-launcher/) Android apps won't likely run on this system once we're done stripping it down, any more than Linux applications run on Android, so the launcher isn't likely to be useful even independent of Robin's well-articulated concerns. > That's not to say that I don't see value in your proposal of having a run= time that can be used on top of an OS rather than requiring a complete repl= acement. I could well be missing something but I see no reason why the proj= ect couldn't have a minimal OS that's just enough to launch the runtime, wh= ich in turn could also run elsewhere. Whatever we run on top of, we have to bind all these various capabilities, and many operating systems don't currently expose enough for us to, f.e., write a dialer app. We'll want to validate against multiple operating systems in time, but we have to start somewhere, ideally where we can hack our way around current limitations in the lower-level stack. > But either way there's a bit of code to write before such refinements :) And how! Please help! Mike
Path: g2news2.google.com!postnews.google.com!q5g2000yqj.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail From: Nick Dafo <nickdafomob...@gmail.com> Newsgroups: mozilla.dev.platform Subject: Re: Booting to the Web Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 17:28:57 -0700 (PDT) Organization: http://groups.google.com Lines: 19 Message-ID: <a2f79491-bcf4-4dd7-8446-747465ed1ccb@q5g2000yqj.googlegroups.com> References: <mailman.3791.1311608964.4544.dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org> <c0fbc317-91f4-4735-a60b-161e4e64d29b@m3g2000pre.googlegroups.com> <mailman.3800.1311614905.4544.dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org> <-O6dnWY54ovfMbDTnZ2dnUVZ_r-dnZ2d@mozilla.org> <4F8529CB-18A1-4A63-8021-B68C9ACDEA7F@berjon.com> <mailman.3831.1311630366.4544.dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: 94.66.199.37 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Trace: posting.google.com 1311640137 2675 127.0.0.1 (26 Jul 2011 00:28:57 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 00:28:57 +0000 (UTC) Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: q5g2000yqj.googlegroups.com; posting-host=94.66.199.37; posting-account=0P6o1woAAACmsIJlNdqnC1VWDBFBW-eD User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 2.2; en-us; GT-P1000 Build/FROYO) AppleWebKit/533.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile Safari/533.1,gzip(gfe) As a huge Android supporter i dont see why you find the need to do this. Android is already a great mobile O.S. that is open source. It may run native apps but i see no problem with that. Plus, it has a great browser that is always getting better with each release so it supports the HTML5 web apps that mozilla (and also google) likes. If Mozilla wants to support open source and the web in mobile devices you should better work as much as possible on the Android version of Firefox instead of trying to create a whole new O.S. There is no need for another O.S. if you can build a great Firefox app for an existing open source O.S. that is already out on the market and growing faster than the closed systems like apple's and microsoft's. You may think that i may be saying this because i love Android but there is much logic and reason in my words.
Path: g2news1.google.com!news2.google.com!Xl.tags.giganews.com! border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local2.nntp.dca.giganews.com! nntp.mozilla.org!news.mozilla.org.POSTED!not-for-mail NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 21:08:33 -0500 Return-Path: <andreas....@gmail.com> X-Original-To: dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org Delivered-To: dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mozilla.org Authentication-Results: notorious.mozilla.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass header...@gmail.com Received-SPF: pass (gmail.com ... _spf.google.com: 209.85.160.178 is authorized to use 'andreas....@gmail.com' in 'mfrom' identity (mechanism 'ip4:209.85.128.0/17' matched)) receiver=notorious.mozilla.org; identity=mailfrom; envelope-from="andreas....@gmail.com"; helo=mail-gy0-f178.google.com; client-ip=209.85.160.178 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=sender:subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer; bh=ZrmeKDuXEaoeA0EkiAplhTG+XK3fKM8RNVrSVGS+PB8=; b=sTVuoo0SqVdlzHuIrZ8kzuygyC2xQtHjadhtzgaWs7mZ38bHvE8nTfyor2sjeFsW8e lQWUG5cb//SUDvhzqkx/t/L/iLNYKQ06tGSAQz+MR22WZP1wATsApI+0yR9kBVm+BEdG 6oZpyoLaDCI6qNE3lYZgyTiPyPEuI6UTU/2Zw= Sender: Andreas Gal <andreas....@gmail.com> Subject: Re: Booting to the Web Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Andreas Gal <g...@mozilla.com> In-Reply-To: <a2f79491-bcf4-4dd7-8446-747465ed1ccb@q5g2000yqj.googlegroups.com> Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 19:07:34 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable References: <mailman.3791.1311608964.4544.dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org> <c0fbc317-91f4-4735-a60b-161e4e64d29b@m3g2000pre.googlegroups.com> <mailman.3800.1311614905.4544.dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org> <-O6dnWY54ovfMbDTnZ2dnUVZ_r-dnZ2d@mozilla.org> <4F8529CB-18A1-4A63-8021-B68C9ACDEA7F@berjon.com> <mailman.3831.1311630366.4544.dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org> <a2f79491-bcf4-4dd7-8446-747465ed1ccb@q5g2000yqj.googlegroups.com> To: Nick Dafo <nickdafomob...@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) Cc: dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org X-BeenThere: dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "The Mozilla platform \(XULRunner\)" <dev-platform.lists.mozilla.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.mozilla.org/options/dev-platform>, <mailto:dev-platform-requ...@lists.mozilla.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Post: <mailto:dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org> List-Help: <mailto:dev-platform-requ...@lists.mozilla.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-platform>, <mailto:dev-platform-requ...@lists.mozilla.org?subject=subscribe> Newsgroups: mozilla.dev.platform Message-ID: <mailman.3857.1311646113.4544.dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org> Lines: 21 X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.245.208.166 X-AuthenticatedUsername: NoAuthUser X-Trace: sv3-skmkCIoP/DEztX38Z4CwVK4hvgyjQ3LoXypqUufriPtHb2Ykay8PfGj2h8zQJft7dH3scvMiHO8PaCH! HO7W9vS7anIiFUx3GDI+v5dT0U6TPJe8z2xXsZEKONBr/PZ66tx27+t5teiZp2oMlzYEzuxraeD5! eXOajutVnO40Zye6ikTMOmxEDM/zu6KM4Q== X-Complaints-To: ab...@mozilla.org X-DMCA-Complaints-To: ab...@mozilla.org X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.40 X-Original-Bytes: 4252 On Jul 25, 2011, at 5:28 PM, Nick Dafo wrote: > As a huge Android supporter i dont see why you find the need to do > this. >=20 > Android is already a great mobile O.S. that is open source. Android is not open source in the sense of "open technology". Android = APIs are proprietary Google sauce, not broadly accepted and adopted open = web standards. At some point Android used to be at least "available = source" where Google would publish secretly/internally developed source = code/technology after the fact as products ship, but even those times = seem to be over now. I would love to boot my custom Android build on my = Galaxy Tab 10", but no luck, Google refuses to release the source. We want to do Boot to Gecko the way we think open source should be done. = In the open, from day 1, for everyone to see and participate. Andreas
Path: g2news2.google.com!postnews.google.com!p14g2000yqj.googlegroups.com! not-for-mail From: Zendrael <zendr...@gmail.com> Newsgroups: mozilla.dev.platform Subject: B2G - Meet LeafWeb and Netwix to help you! Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 07:24:24 -0700 (PDT) Organization: http://groups.google.com Lines: 18 Message-ID: <8e142cb7-fe47-4d3d-ac2f-12c80d0cdb80@p14g2000yqj.googlegroups.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 189.79.207.225 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Trace: posting.google.com 1311691982 6702 127.0.0.1 (26 Jul 2011 14:53:02 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 14:53:02 +0000 (UTC) Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: p14g2000yqj.googlegroups.com; posting-host=189.79.207.225; posting-account=8r_zYwoAAABk0q2woTgFa53cqaQmZv1i User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:5.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/5.0,gzip(gfe) Hi! I am developing the LeafWeb ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2gQcbdHkuU ) and Netwix ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ww1taiLP-k ) systems since a few years ago and now I believe that I can contribute to the B2G project. I can give you more explanations about how the system works and how it let the web interface interact with the O.S. parts if you want. And how about starting from the OpenMoko O.S.? I think it could be more useful than Android. Or even NetBSD as the core of the final system. Best Regards Zendrael www.zendrael.com.br
Path: g2news2.google.com!news1.google.com!Xl.tags.giganews.com! border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local2.nntp.dca.giganews.com! nntp.mozilla.org!news.mozilla.org.POSTED!not-for-mail NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 09:45:29 -0500 Return-Path: <mike.sha...@gmail.com> X-Original-To: dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org Delivered-To: dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mozilla.org Authentication-Results: notorious.mozilla.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass header...@gmail.com Received-SPF: pass (gmail.com ... _spf.google.com: 74.125.83.50 is authorized to use 'mike.sha...@gmail.com' in 'mfrom' identity (mechanism 'ip4:74.125.0.0/16' matched)) receiver=notorious.mozilla.org; identity=mailfrom; envelope-from="mike.sha...@gmail.com"; helo=mail-gw0-f50.google.com; client-ip=74.125.83.50 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=dIFqytxsmd4aUVa14gbVr2GSC38HA/oaNJ+2QG+t2AQ=; b=o8NQisvhT3yC+szJPCFQ+XXQozZ03ouMsSXXLj37Gd8uSsvx3ibfv3UJu57eEdSLpB 8rb+lSxzriE3dnfIM+THOFNKmcr4gJLStudt4ASkBMbt07YtUj7GXajHqR5R2GEiAzR/ tEXCH7/gXaUKGFUKmZTylPwuBt5zpHjZprZ6c= MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <a2f79491-bcf4-4dd7-8446-747465ed1ccb@q5g2000yqj.googlegroups.com> References: <mailman.3791.1311608964.4544.dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org> <c0fbc317-91f4-4735-a60b-161e4e64d29b@m3g2000pre.googlegroups.com> <mailman.3800.1311614905.4544.dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org> <-O6dnWY54ovfMbDTnZ2dnUVZ_r-dnZ2d@mozilla.org> <4F8529CB-18A1-4A63-8021-B68C9ACDEA7F@berjon.com> <mailman.3831.1311630366.4544.dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org> <a2f79491-bcf4-4dd7-8446-747465ed1ccb@q5g2000yqj.googlegroups.com> Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 10:45:22 -0400 Subject: Re: Booting to the Web From: Mike Shaver <mike.sha...@gmail.com> To: Nick Dafo <nickdafomob...@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org X-BeenThere: dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "The Mozilla platform \(XULRunner\)" <dev-platform.lists.mozilla.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.mozilla.org/options/dev-platform>, <mailto:dev-platform-requ...@lists.mozilla.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Post: <mailto:dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org> List-Help: <mailto:dev-platform-requ...@lists.mozilla.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-platform>, <mailto:dev-platform-requ...@lists.mozilla.org?subject=subscribe> Newsgroups: mozilla.dev.platform Message-ID: <mailman.3937.1311691528.4544.dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org> Lines: 27 X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.245.208.166 X-AuthenticatedUsername: NoAuthUser X-Trace: sv3-qK893LnLHYTKYPKl5E1LZYm37nI3ZwE+I+FQrVUgIoNhQCm7U3C1zKvNpkumqsBAJiKIF5SjwterZT0! 7t42skD7oFhXkuoHxuaKbNF0uwbU6dU45jTBADmhgCPzC72Tj61TMl2U9fDBOqgxC7LIgDfhSmWx! r1pj4iP5tCN/wp0snwKdbwjGkdFT/DfvbQ== X-Complaints-To: ab...@mozilla.org X-DMCA-Complaints-To: ab...@mozilla.org X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.40 X-Original-Bytes: 4498 On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 8:28 PM, Nick Dafo <nickdafomob...@gmail.com> wrote: > As a huge Android supporter i dont see why you find the need to do > this. You are not the only one to ask this (implied) question, so I apologize for not making it clearer in the original post. > If Mozilla wants to support open source and the web in mobile devices > you should better work as much as possible on the Android version of > Firefox instead of trying to create a whole new O.S. We are certainly going to continue with Firefox on Android. It's improving all the time, and in pretty exciting ways. That's one of the reasons that we're starting our explorations on Android, in fact. We don't feel that we can integrate as deeply as we want on stock Android, for purposes of this project's goals. We don't want to have a browser next to the apps, we want to have the apps built with the web platform, including the system apps like the launcher and the dialer and SMS app and even the app manager/market itself. We hope that the resulting APIs and capabilities make their way into all browsers on all platforms, because they will dramatically increase the reach of the web; we'll certainly be proposing the successful ones for standardization, and for in-development feedback. Mike
Path: g2news1.google.com!news1.google.com!Xl.tags.giganews.com! border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local2.nntp.dca.giganews.com! nntp.mozilla.org!news.mozilla.org.POSTED!not-for-mail NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 10:32:07 -0500 Return-Path: <kny...@gmail.com> X-Original-To: dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org Delivered-To: dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mozilla.org Authentication-Results: notorious.mozilla.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass header...@gmail.com Received-SPF: pass (gmail.com ... _spf.google.com: 209.85.210.178 is authorized to use 'kny...@gmail.com' in 'mfrom' identity (mechanism 'ip4:209.85.128.0/17' matched)) receiver=notorious.mozilla.org; identity=mailfrom; envelope-from="kny...@gmail.com"; helo=mail-iy0-f178.google.com; client-ip=209.85.210.178 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=U7jWPPByzLNrr9o+WVefkqo3AH1HKornDzPMR5MyYRw=; b=fzdNm12u3yvymgT3SjA1lbrN7SLpVaQdjy0ZoFCh3GYsA6XUWfA+Axpz3U8t3+6bdp tFZSTUvO045xzEOk53iP05LCJFxAoDVYr8n/fGh8G290ep7mrdz7JzNabQrhgZ3hnaDR AmRy5mR3cLw/v0Srw6m7rN2+rjKy6ilN5Bm5E= MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <CAJVWO9b-fKU4JbXgGWjGZfO2zWq7-D8SXdiGdkB0d=qLK6JDJQ@mail.gmail.com> References: <mailman.3791.1311608964.4544.dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org> <c0fbc317-91f4-4735-a60b-161e4e64d29b@m3g2000pre.googlegroups.com> <mailman.3800.1311614905.4544.dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org> <-O6dnWY54ovfMbDTnZ2dnUVZ_r-dnZ2d@mozilla.org> <4F8529CB-18A1-4A63-8021-B68C9ACDEA7F@berjon.com> <mailman.3831.1311630366.4544.dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org> <a2f79491-bcf4-4dd7-8446-747465ed1ccb@q5g2000yqj.googlegroups.com> <mailman.3937.1311691528.4544.dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org> <df8c0b63-0140-42fa-abaa-66f0b80bf35f@y13g2000yqy.googlegroups.com> <CAJVWO9b-fKU4JbXgGWjGZfO2zWq7-D8SXdiGdkB0d=qLK6JDJQ@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 15:32:01 +0000 Subject: Re: Booting to the Web From: ya knygar <kny...@gmail.com> To: dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-BeenThere: dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "The Mozilla platform \(XULRunner\)" <dev-platform.lists.mozilla.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.mozilla.org/options/dev-platform>, <mailto:dev-platform-requ...@lists.mozilla.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Post: <mailto:dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org> List-Help: <mailto:dev-platform-requ...@lists.mozilla.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-platform>, <mailto:dev-platform-requ...@lists.mozilla.org?subject=subscribe> Newsgroups: mozilla.dev.platform Message-ID: <mailman.3948.1311694326.4544.dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org> Lines: 13 X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.245.208.166 X-AuthenticatedUsername: NoAuthUser X-Trace: sv3-VFPGxnICxP3uBCb0TvGdFP1OnWYvEpymAaXZT3H3Yy1W8og3bRvUrBX0PAxGRhtVh4myqQLDbGWA3vJ! H2XaMMQmVXPMVJrIQLU+0019SKmQ2zaDgfO7qtX5ECJr2Zo3X/Zi6C2YdqQYQG+kdp7ePa5eNGc3! Ar5Ht5nrGdwwJtQDcPepeWLYQ+6/SxNbqg== X-Complaints-To: ab...@mozilla.org X-DMCA-Complaints-To: ab...@mozilla.org X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.40 X-Original-Bytes: 3862 > And how about starting from the OpenMoko O.S.? I think it could be > more useful than Android. Or even NetBSD as the core of the final > system. +1 i have proposed http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/SHR there are misleading info, i think, that there aren't FLOSS mobile systems that could compete easily, that's why Android is here, and it's best and "real" among these "academic" projects, i think it's not true, i think Android is pre-installed (in some - almost firmwared) on every second mobile by other reasons :)
Path: g2news1.google.com!news1.google.com!Xl.tags.giganews.com! border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local2.nntp.dca.giganews.com! nntp.mozilla.org!news.mozilla.org.POSTED!not-for-mail NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 10:35:03 -0500 Return-Path: <mike.sha...@gmail.com> X-Original-To: dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org Delivered-To: dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mozilla.org Authentication-Results: notorious.mozilla.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass header...@gmail.com Received-SPF: pass (gmail.com ... _spf.google.com: 209.85.213.50 is authorized to use 'mike.sha...@gmail.com' in 'mfrom' identity (mechanism 'ip4:209.85.128.0/17' matched)) receiver=notorious.mozilla.org; identity=mailfrom; envelope-from="mike.sha...@gmail.com"; helo=mail-yw0-f50.google.com; client-ip=209.85.213.50 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=u7R058X+re4zT2kc8pAc0BTKB7aQ6EqSz05AUDXbvjQ=; b=SxiZKnHlnbvLuGpgxEGb1e2vAjxe48FMP5xTibnZJCw23YApTZLFmA3rZUdmozDkZz x1zhhoYLmGrG1BoA7tUZObE8sx433YL3ggY/Wkq3OLdwoSsdlWL6fWR23OVDgJ7972MD +MTdfig+iXK8eOP6b1FYha1ZcPN/mmepcoyZc= MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <CAJVWO9bfxgfHdh6=+pwt+LszjVqhDHDaBzYMFn52+zwKKAuGEA@mail.gmail.com> References: <mailman.3791.1311608964.4544.dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org> <c0fbc317-91f4-4735-a60b-161e4e64d29b@m3g2000pre.googlegroups.com> <mailman.3800.1311614905.4544.dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org> <-O6dnWY54ovfMbDTnZ2dnUVZ_r-dnZ2d@mozilla.org> <4F8529CB-18A1-4A63-8021-B68C9ACDEA7F@berjon.com> <mailman.3831.1311630366.4544.dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org> <a2f79491-bcf4-4dd7-8446-747465ed1ccb@q5g2000yqj.googlegroups.com> <mailman.3937.1311691528.4544.dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org> <df8c0b63-0140-42fa-abaa-66f0b80bf35f@y13g2000yqy.googlegroups.com> <CAJVWO9b-fKU4JbXgGWjGZfO2zWq7-D8SXdiGdkB0d=qLK6JDJQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAJVWO9bfxgfHdh6=+pwt+LszjVqhDHDaBzYMFn52+zwKKAuGEA@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 11:34:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Booting to the Web From: Mike Shaver <mike.sha...@gmail.com> To: ya knygar <kny...@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org X-BeenThere: dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "The Mozilla platform \(XULRunner\)" <dev-platform.lists.mozilla.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.mozilla.org/options/dev-platform>, <mailto:dev-platform-requ...@lists.mozilla.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Post: <mailto:dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org> List-Help: <mailto:dev-platform-requ...@lists.mozilla.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-platform>, <mailto:dev-platform-requ...@lists.mozilla.org?subject=subscribe> Newsgroups: mozilla.dev.platform Message-ID: <mailman.3949.1311694503.4544.dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org> Lines: 14 X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.245.208.166 X-AuthenticatedUsername: NoAuthUser X-Trace: sv3-pavg9qh1If/PkRj3LWixLUro1l+7oJN+s3X2VP4W0CA+ZoUNM7ExoDPG5dLNGk8Gjh91YgR/NJzONHN! 5BgXrBaVL/vB6+Op3YWdFOssuKmQytlNNisFFjh+3GM9sjlHyLd1vGmECLm3jWmPezVrb0c+idGZ! NPQde8fqy6+ySrhQH7kC99rg668wc/qr1w== X-Complaints-To: ab...@mozilla.org X-DMCA-Complaints-To: ab...@mozilla.org X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.40 X-Original-Bytes: 3965 On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 11:32 AM, ya knygar <kny...@gmail.com> wrote: >> And how about starting from the OpenMoko O.S.? I think it could be >> more useful than Android. Or even NetBSD as the core of the final >> system. > > +1 i have proposed http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/SHR Please see my post in this thread about OS selection. Experimental results for bringing up capable systems on available hardware are welcome, but abstract advocacy isn't helpful at this stage. Thanks, Mike
Path: g2news1.google.com!news2.google.com!Xl.tags.giganews.com! border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local2.nntp.dca.giganews.com! nntp.mozilla.org!news.mozilla.org.POSTED!not-for-mail NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 10:57:32 -0500 Return-Path: <kny...@gmail.com> X-Original-To: dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org Delivered-To: dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mozilla.org Authentication-Results: notorious.mozilla.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass header...@gmail.com Received-SPF: pass (gmail.com ... _spf.google.com: 209.85.210.178 is authorized to use 'kny...@gmail.com' in 'mfrom' identity (mechanism 'ip4:209.85.128.0/17' matched)) receiver=notorious.mozilla.org; identity=mailfrom; envelope-from="kny...@gmail.com"; helo=mail-iy0-f178.google.com; client-ip=209.85.210.178 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Tl+Ri1rsaVVJIxBqnpfs2XdrnFrdLBXZFvaoKBhvXus=; b=nbOP8tzOiFJ0uRorXbFM65EeJsaFSUkDDG/k6GXeDLU8l3gAVCKrWf+yiIy0uhdXXo iv1ehUAYmJkCRaChpmU1yPiGmw+y9KalQVD2886534rbKrCEyWOxpH8cWT5U/vMo9HA2 UDa2PoUPpxhy40y1joToKW5U4OhfzsdkYvoMM= MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <CADQzZqsSYRnRm=-gv+_P9mvqeC92xydEtjW8Nuns2SZNc9GvyQ@mail.gmail.com> References: <mailman.3791.1311608964.4544.dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org> <c0fbc317-91f4-4735-a60b-161e4e64d29b@m3g2000pre.googlegroups.com> <mailman.3800.1311614905.4544.dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org> <-O6dnWY54ovfMbDTnZ2dnUVZ_r-dnZ2d@mozilla.org> <4F8529CB-18A1-4A63-8021-B68C9ACDEA7F@berjon.com> <mailman.3831.1311630366.4544.dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org> <a2f79491-bcf4-4dd7-8446-747465ed1ccb@q5g2000yqj.googlegroups.com> <mailman.3937.1311691528.4544.dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org> <df8c0b63-0140-42fa-abaa-66f0b80bf35f@y13g2000yqy.googlegroups.com> <CAJVWO9b-fKU4JbXgGWjGZfO2zWq7-D8SXdiGdkB0d=qLK6JDJQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAJVWO9bfxgfHdh6=+pwt+LszjVqhDHDaBzYMFn52+zwKKAuGEA@mail.gmail.com> <CADQzZqsSYRnRm=-gv+_P9mvqeC92xydEtjW8Nuns2SZNc9GvyQ@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 15:57:25 +0000 Subject: Re: Booting to the Web From: ya knygar <kny...@gmail.com> To: Mike Shaver <mike.sha...@gmail.com>, dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "The Mozilla platform \(XULRunner\)" <dev-platform.lists.mozilla.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.mozilla.org/options/dev-platform>, <mailto:dev-platform-requ...@lists.mozilla.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Post: <mailto:dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org> List-Help: <mailto:dev-platform-requ...@lists.mozilla.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-platform>, <mailto:dev-platform-requ...@lists.mozilla.org?subject=subscribe> Newsgroups: mozilla.dev.platform Message-ID: <mailman.3951.1311695851.4544.dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org> Lines: 49 X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.245.208.166 X-AuthenticatedUsername: NoAuthUser X-Trace: sv3-N5OQsFO7CUSdrm3H4lZofwXqpImluao5s6kWc3+eAqWUsyGk0MlHsni7UCuR1Ip7kz4KRbQi80RR65e! 1PAwhZ+tQO4+jeSS8Ck6/+xdskEKNwkNsII4CSmcHWW2GbAYEQ8an4jUZqW5hVpxDreAunpuosy0! UhSjvZNrXmJL0Zt0riTjUSAB0VDohF45QA== X-Complaints-To: ab...@mozilla.org X-DMCA-Complaints-To: ab...@mozilla.org X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.40 X-Original-Bytes: 5351 > Please see my post in this thread about OS selection. Experimental > results for bringing up capable systems on available hardware are > welcome, but abstract advocacy isn't helpful at this stage. I have just read (again) all your posts on topic, and - still - can't understand how i can help more on Experimental results- for B2G in current situation.. You'v said > It's great that you have specific > desires, and useful for you to contribute to scratching them, but this > thread is about B2G and not what else Mozilla could be doing. I think - underlying kernel and platform of B2G so it have started and would be mentioned in Mass Media like a Mozilla OS (no, really) is important enough to start a separate topic about such an essential aspects, would you create one? if people from B2G team would describe: what existing OS's you have evaluated for use in B2G with detail analyze if there where, any - so we - who talk about existing mobile OS's to build from: could discuss and help - starting from what You as a Mozilla OS team have, not from the scratch and own, separate, project.? Thanks in advance. On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 3:34 PM, Mike Shaver <mike.sha...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 11:32 AM, ya knygar <kny...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> And how about starting from the OpenMoko O.S.? I think it could be >>> more useful than Android. Or even NetBSD as the core of the final >>> system. >> >> +1 i have proposed http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/SHR > > Please see my post in this thread about OS selection. =C2=A0Experimental > results for bringing up capable systems on available hardware are > welcome, but abstract advocacy isn't helpful at this stage. > > Thanks, > > Mike >
Path: g2news2.google.com!news2.google.com!Xl.tags.giganews.com! border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local2.nntp.dca.giganews.com! nntp.mozilla.org!news.mozilla.org.POSTED!not-for-mail NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 12:43:09 -0500 Return-Path: <mike.sha...@gmail.com> X-Original-To: dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org Delivered-To: dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mozilla.org Authentication-Results: notorious.mozilla.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass header...@gmail.com Received-SPF: pass (gmail.com ... _spf.google.com: 209.85.218.50 is authorized to use 'mike.sha...@gmail.com' in 'mfrom' identity (mechanism 'ip4:209.85.128.0/17' matched)) receiver=notorious.mozilla.org; identity=mailfrom; envelope-from="mike.sha...@gmail.com"; helo=mail-yi0-f50.google.com; client-ip=209.85.218.50 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=pjP/CEI3p+1jsjKGAMoIYf90WoDuCsMxCpS0Hm3kttM=; b=DCWN3Mk+iUuap0GcI8to+v3H2LFX8Sq0jEqCNHntCHwVyc7CSYe74FE9N822aWSow2 2kbx7HQPaZDNbkSCFaJycAjfWRNrdWgNCf1DfOFPyevjF7H8Y9cAPIhwdCW4hUNfChPd DPztlFmJMlqyMp1xqQtIOKjHRUiFV5GJ6+zbw= MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <CAJVWO9ZEFruTNU3PSoytLQGjxEGvTo5dxuwDbK4mnFy9jyS8qw@mail.gmail.com> References: <mailman.3791.1311608964.4544.dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org> <c0fbc317-91f4-4735-a60b-161e4e64d29b@m3g2000pre.googlegroups.com> <mailman.3800.1311614905.4544.dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org> <-O6dnWY54ovfMbDTnZ2dnUVZ_r-dnZ2d@mozilla.org> <4F8529CB-18A1-4A63-8021-B68C9ACDEA7F@berjon.com> <mailman.3831.1311630366.4544.dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org> <a2f79491-bcf4-4dd7-8446-747465ed1ccb@q5g2000yqj.googlegroups.com> <mailman.3937.1311691528.4544.dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org> <df8c0b63-0140-42fa-abaa-66f0b80bf35f@y13g2000yqy.googlegroups.com> <CAJVWO9b-fKU4JbXgGWjGZfO2zWq7-D8SXdiGdkB0d=qLK6JDJQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAJVWO9bfxgfHdh6=+pwt+LszjVqhDHDaBzYMFn52+zwKKAuGEA@mail.gmail.com> <CADQzZqsSYRnRm=-gv+_P9mvqeC92xydEtjW8Nuns2SZNc9GvyQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAJVWO9ZEFruTNU3PSoytLQGjxEGvTo5dxuwDbK4mnFy9jyS...@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 13:42:54 -0400 Subject: Re: Booting to the Web From: Mike Shaver <mike.sha...@gmail.com> To: ya knygar <kny...@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org X-BeenThere: dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "The Mozilla platform \(XULRunner\)" <dev-platform.lists.mozilla.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.mozilla.org/options/dev-platform>, <mailto:dev-platform-requ...@lists.mozilla.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Post: <mailto:dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org> List-Help: <mailto:dev-platform-requ...@lists.mozilla.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-platform>, <mailto:dev-platform-requ...@lists.mozilla.org?subject=subscribe> Newsgroups: mozilla.dev.platform Message-ID: <mailman.3970.1311702188.4544.dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org> Lines: 32 X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.245.208.166 X-AuthenticatedUsername: NoAuthUser X-Trace: sv3-FrqRyvx43XEoRBnlxfg230hH7D+Rz2+gfeK0X4LBMtLU14fhe67r36iE/C5zr5gKf9JfcfnKcVRXhBz! UCvfeNX0lu/wP6T04AU7gpFZzZgfgaDmc/WpsnvnwhcAkAXlcMhLoHDDgHuKUwuj0lZk+kOT9bIE! cnwFUIwhzyKqYR9M23Oe6n2frqxLjzkpdA== X-Complaints-To: ab...@mozilla.org X-DMCA-Complaints-To: ab...@mozilla.org X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.40 X-Original-Bytes: 5200 On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 11:57 AM, ya knygar <kny...@gmail.com> wrote: > and - still - can't understand how i can help more on Experimental results- > for B2G in current situation.. It's quite possible that you can't, in which case you could wait until it's possible -- until you can fork something workingish and play with it, or until you know how hard it is to bring up these other OSes on modern commodity hardware. The abstract advocacy isn't any more useful just because you don't yet have data to provide! > what existing OS's you have evaluated for use in B2G > with detail analyze if there where, any - Assume that there was very little, because our needs (as enumerated a couple times) are met by this selection. At this stage of development, we need "sufficient", not "optimal". The underlying kernel is just about the least important aspect of this project, even if it's something we need early on: how we approach the new APIs, application interaction model, security model (!), etc. are much more important. > so we - who talk about existing mobile OS's to build from: > could discuss and help - starting from what You as a Mozilla > OS team have, not from the scratch and own, separate, project.? My advice is to wait until someone gets something up on one OS -- the few of us working on B2G now are going to start from Android; a sideline into starting from ChromeOS might be interesting as well, since it's a much more open stack -- and then we (incl you) will know more about what we need, and there'll be something to compare to. Mike
Path: g2news2.google.com!news2.google.com!Xl.tags.giganews.com! border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local2.nntp.dca.giganews.com! nntp.mozilla.org!news.mozilla.org.POSTED!not-for-mail NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 13:44:57 -0500 Return-Path: <da...@illsley.org> X-Original-To: dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org Delivered-To: dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mozilla.org Received-SPF: none (illsley.org: No applicable sender policy available) receiver=notorious.mozilla.org; identity=mailfrom; envelope-from="da...@illsley.org"; helo=mail-ey0-f182.google.com; client-ip=209.85.215.182 Subject: Re: Booting to the Web Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1244.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 From: David Illsley <da...@illsley.org> In-Reply-To: <1A3CAD3A-1133-447D-B5BC-6B32BE95F7BF@mozilla.com> Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 19:44:19 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable References: <1A3CAD3A-1133-447D-B5BC-6B32BE95F7BF@mozilla.com> To: Andreas Gal <g...@mozilla.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1244.3) Cc: dev-platform <dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org> X-BeenThere: dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "The Mozilla platform \(XULRunner\)" <dev-platform.lists.mozilla.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.mozilla.org/options/dev-platform>, <mailto:dev-platform-requ...@lists.mozilla.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Post: <mailto:dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org> List-Help: <mailto:dev-platform-requ...@lists.mozilla.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-platform>, <mailto:dev-platform-requ...@lists.mozilla.org?subject=subscribe> Newsgroups: mozilla.dev.platform Message-ID: <mailman.3983.1311705897.4544.dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org> Lines: 55 X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.245.208.166 X-AuthenticatedUsername: NoAuthUser X-Trace: sv3-yPYipuBdox8Q58Pay54nSDyM5khR/Lo8146gQ82dRMmXVpxsxWdqz8Dzu2YautLvyA+T2aAvGuL+VbF! XcetSBjV+EJJ/qPj+v4yAOg9yd1VhMeUFCJaL34TMAgWZ7x6MEI2fglagiQUkOUDBYX1mvITbmbg! oNsRCwJNF6oA1cge128dB4cfNjcZT8ZsKg== X-Complaints-To: ab...@mozilla.org X-DMCA-Complaints-To: ab...@mozilla.org X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.40 X-Original-Bytes: 4970 Sounds like fun. How radical (or not) do you see it being? i.e. Is the = first goal to get a bunch of apps with squareish icons on a grid?=20 David On 25 Jul 2011, at 16:49, Andreas Gal wrote: >=20 > Mozilla believes that the web can displace proprietary, single-vendor = stacks for application development. To make open web technologies a = better basis for future applications on mobile and desktop alike, we = need to keep pushing the envelope of the web to include --- and in = places exceed --- the capabilities of the competing stacks in question. >=20 > We also need a hill to take, in order to scope and focus our efforts. = Recently we saw the pdf.js [http://github.com/andreasgal/pdf.js/] = project expose small gaps that needed filling in order for "HTML5" to be = a superset of PDF. We want to take a bigger step now, and find the gaps = that keep web developers from being able to build apps that are --- in = every way --- the equals of native apps built for the iPhone, Android, = and WP7. >=20 > To that end, we propose a project we=92re calling "Boot to Gecko" = [http://wiki.mozilla.org/B2G] (B2G) to pursue the goal of building a = complete, standalone operating system for the open web. It=92s going to = require work in a number of areas. >=20 > * New web APIs: build prototype APIs for exposing device and OS = capabilities to content (Telephony, SMS, Camera, USB, Bluetooth, NFC, = etc.) > * Privilege model: making sure that these new capabilities are safely = exposed to pages and applications > * Booting: prototype a low-level substrate for an Android-compatible = device; > * Applications: choose and port or build apps to prove out and = prioritize the power of the system. >=20 > We will do this work in the open, we will release the source = [http://github.com/andreasgal/B2G] in real-time, we will take all = successful additions to an appropriate standards group, and we will = track changes that come out of that process. We aren't trying to have = these native-grade apps just run on Firefox, we're trying to have them = run on the web. >=20 > This project is in its infancy; some pieces of it are only captured in = our heads today, others aren=92t fully explored. We=92re talking about = it now because we want expertise from all over Mozilla -- and from = people who aren=92t yet part of Mozilla -- to inform and build the = project we=92re outlining here. >=20 > brendan, cjones, gal, shaver > _______________________________________________ > dev-platform mailing list > dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org > https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-platform
Path: g2news2.google.com!news2.google.com!Xl.tags.giganews.com! border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local2.nntp.dca.giganews.com! nntp.mozilla.org!news.mozilla.org.POSTED!not-for-mail NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 17:13:46 -0500 Message-ID: <4E2F3C15.6050803@mozilla.com> Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2011 18:13:41 -0400 From: Chris Jones <cjo...@mozilla.com> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.2.15) Gecko/20110303 Thunderbird/3.1.9 MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: mozilla.dev.platform To: David Illsley <da...@illsley.org> CC: Andreas Gal <g...@mozilla.com>, dev-platform <dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org> Subject: Re: Booting to the Web References: <1A3CAD3A-1133-447D-B5BC-6B32BE95F7BF@mozilla.com> <mailman.3983.1311705897.4544.dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org> In-Reply-To: <mailman.3983.1311705897.4544.dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 36 X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.226.201.250 X-AuthenticatedUsername: NoAuthUser X-Trace: sv3-kRKvv2UHypASJN9VWm9hiRzH06T5mFYkk6GOmmgbF+UR/Ejxhe5/oxROKouaRKWDgG+1xrWId/AIORe! MT0coCawGKNTen3ZM7YqP9UMdg93WabTm3YzEnP4q43yLojr7i1Xx8tyJhmemFAo9lm77Q== X-Complaints-To: abuse@mozilla.org X-DMCA-Complaints-To: ab...@mozilla.org X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.40 X-Original-Bytes: 4254 The goals of the B2G project are lower level, adding new APIs to the web platform and realizing them on a standalone OS on real hardware. Time will tell what the impact of B2G (if any) is. Cheers, Chris On 07/26/2011 02:44 PM, David Illsley wrote: > Sounds like fun. How radical (or not) do you see it being? i.e. Is the first goal to > get a bunch of apps with squareish icons on a grid? > David > > On 25 Jul 2011, at 16:49, Andreas Gal wrote: > >> >> Mozilla believes that the web can displace proprietary, single-vendor stacks for >> application development. To make open web technologies a better basis for future >> applications on mobile and desktop alike, we need to keep pushing the envelope >> of the web to include --- and in places exceed --- the capabilities of the >> competing stacks in question. >> >> We also need a hill to take, in order to scope and focus our efforts. Recently >> we saw the pdf.js [http://github.com/andreasgal/pdf.js/] project expose small gaps >> that needed filling in order for "HTML5" to be a superset of PDF. We want to take >> a bigger step now, and find the gaps that keep web developers from being able to >> build apps that are --- in every way --- the equals of native apps built for the >> iPhone, Android, and WP7. >> >> To that end, we propose a project we’re calling "Boot to Gecko" >> [http://wiki.mozilla.org/B2G] (B2G) to pursue the goal of building a complete, >> standalone operating system for the open web. It’s going to require work in a >> number of areas. >> >> * New web APIs: build prototype APIs for exposing device and OS capabilities to >> content (Telephony, SMS, Camera, USB, Bluetooth, NFC, etc.) >> * Privilege model: making sure that these new capabilities are safely exposed to >> pages and applications >> * Booting: prototype a low-level substrate for an Android-compatible device; >> * Applications: choose and port or build apps to prove out and prioritize the >> power of the system. >> >> We will do this work in the open, we will release the source >> [http://github.com/andreasgal/B2G] in real-time, we will take all successful >> additions to an appropriate standards group, and we will track changes that >> come out of that process. We aren't trying to have these native-grade apps >> just run on Firefox, we're trying to have them run on the web. >> >> This project is in its infancy; some pieces of it are only captured in our >> heads today, others aren’t fully explored. We’re talking about it now because >> we want expertise from all over Mozilla -- and from people who aren’t yet part >> of Mozilla -- to inform and build the project we’re outlining here. >> >> brendan, cjones, gal, shaver >> _______________________________________________ >> dev-platform mailing list >> dev-platf...@lists.mozilla.org >> https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-platform >